JP1 Remotes Forum Index JP1 Remotes


FAQFAQ SearchSearch 7 days of topics7 Days MemberlistMemberlist UsergroupsUsergroups RegisterRegister
ProfileProfile Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages Log inLog in

Do universal RF remotes exist?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    JP1 Remotes Forum Index -> Non-JP1
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
andyross



Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 261
Location: Aurora, IL

                    
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:53 am    Post subject: Do universal RF remotes exist? Reply with quote

Not directly JP1 related, but I was wondering if 3rd party RF remotes exist? With more and more devices supporting RF, and some requiring it, I wonder if 3rd parties make compatible remotes. Even if it only supports normal commands and not voice, it would still be nice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mathdon
Expert


Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 4515
Location: Cambridge, UK

                    
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2022 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Early devices with RF control used proprietary hardware and were not amenable to support by a universal remote. Recent devices use the ZigBee RF4CE standard (RF4CE = RF for Consumer Electronics) and can, in principle, be supported in this way. I am aware of four UEI remotes that support RF4CE. These are the URC2068BC2, URC2125BC0, URC2135BC0 and URC3220, all of which are supported by RMIR. You may have noticed that recent releases of RMIR have an RF button on the toolbar. This gives access to the RF support in RMIR which enables you to customize the RF capabilities as far as the UEI remote allows. But I said "in principle" above as there are limits to what is possible in these four remotes.

There are big differences between the signalling protocols of IR and RF. For IR there are many widely differing protocols and to support a particular device you need to know the protocol, the fixed data that identifies the device within that protocol and the command codes for each signal. Much of RMIR is concerned with the setting of the command codes. RF support through RF4CE is in some ways simpler, as a huge range of command codes are specified within the RF4CE specification, though RMIR allows them to be specified in the same way as for IR. The data that identifies the vendor and the device is also customizable within RMIR. The problem is the protocol. The RF4CE is a signalling standard that allows for various protocols with it. It lays down a basic protocol, the ZigBee Remote Control (ZRC) protocol but also allows vendor-specific protocols, and even ZRC has options within it. The current RF4CE-capable remotes listed above support some, but not all, ZRC options and for some of them also a UEI proprietary protocol but have no means of installing other vendor protocols.

I have all four remotes and only one RF-capable device, a UK Virgin Media cable box but its protocol is not supported by the remotes so I have no experience of actually using any of them "for real".

You can find further info in the following threads:

RF Support in RMIR
RF Capabilites of URC2125
URC-2068bc2-0780-0002-R

The first of these also has info on an RF Packet Sniffer that, with the support included in RMIR, enables you to read and interpret the RF4CE signals from an existing OEM remote.

If you follow this up and get one of these remotes, or any other RF4CE-capable universal remote, do please post your experiences with it.
_________________
Graham
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mdavej
Expert


Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Posts: 4500

                    
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2022 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw a universal learning RF remote on Amazon a few years ago. I have no idea how well it worked.

These days, so many devices support IP control, that's what I use instead of IR or RF.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
andyross



Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 261
Location: Aurora, IL

                    
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2022 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was asking more in curiosity. I have a Comcast X1 cable box and Roku's (Roku 4, Roku Ultra 4800) that support RF.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mdavej
Expert


Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Posts: 4500

                    
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2022 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

andyross wrote:
I was asking more in curiosity. I have a Comcast X1 cable box and Roku's (Roku 4, Roku Ultra 4800) that support RF.
Not sure about Comcast, but I control all my Rokus by IP. It's pretty great since you can launch any app directly. So I have a screen full of icons for the apps I use the most.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mathdon
Expert


Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 4515
Location: Cambridge, UK

                    
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2022 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdavej wrote:
I saw a universal learning RF remote on Amazon a few years ago.

Are you sure that it wasn't a remote supporting both IR and RF, with learning only for IR? RF4CE signals cannot be learned, as they are encrypted with a two-part key, one part of which is exchanged during pairing and the other is a sequential frame number that is sent unencrypted as part of the signal. The receiving device requires the frame number of a signal to be greater than that of the previous signal, so learning a signal and re-sending it will not work. RMIR can get the fixed part of the key, that exchanged during pairing, in one of two ways. From a UEI remote it can read it from the E2 area, for an OEM remote it can get it from the pairing exchange if a packet sniffer is used to capture the signals of that exchange. So RMIR can decrypt signals received by the packet sniffer but I think it is very doubtful that a universal remote would have that capability.
_________________
Graham
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mdavej
Expert


Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Posts: 4500

                    
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2022 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I'm certain it learned RF due to the description and the comments. Have never seen anything else like it before or since. I wish I still had the link.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
andyross



Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 261
Location: Aurora, IL

                    
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdavej wrote:
andyross wrote:
I was asking more in curiosity. I have a Comcast X1 cable box and Roku's (Roku 4, Roku Ultra 4800) that support RF.
Not sure about Comcast, but I control all my Rokus by IP. It's pretty great since you can launch any app directly. So I have a screen full of icons for the apps I use the most.

I don't like using a phone/tablet as a remote. I like something with physical keys I can use without having to look at it, or charge up every day. Plus, Roku does have many direct codes for services that you can program onto a button. I have some programmed onto the color keys on my RCRP05B.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ed



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 262
Location: Ft. Worth, TX

                    
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdavej wrote:
Not sure about Comcast, but I control all my Rokus by IP. It's pretty great since you can launch any app directly. So I have a screen full of icons for the apps I use the most.


I've wondered about using my cell phone to control my Roku TV, but I've never tried it. My main TV is connected to a receiver for sound, a Raspberry Pi for Kodi (OSMC), and to a BluRay player which I seldom use. I suppose I could be content to use the BluRay player's remote to control it. The receiver is connected to the TV via CEC, so I suspect the cell phone would work OK with it. There is, however, no workable CEC solution for the Pi/OSMC, so I can't get away from having a second remote to control it.

Today, of course, I control them all with my trusty OAR remote in the tried and true fashion. Some of the streaming services I use don't have discrete Roku codes, but for them I just hit "menu" and navigate to the service I want.

I wonder if I might be missing something?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic       JP1 Remotes Forum Index -> Non-JP1 All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


 

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Top 7 Advantages of Playing Online Slots The Evolution of Remote Control