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Protocol not compatible
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BobH



Joined: 13 May 2011
Posts: 12

                    
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 11:49 am    Post subject: Protocol not compatible Reply with quote

My JP1 Remote: URC-10820N
Device I want to control: Channel Master DVR+ CM-7500GB16

I am attempting to load an upgrade found in the "DVR/PVR" section named "Channel Master DVR+ CM-7500GB16.rmdu" and I get the message:

"The selected protocol "NEC1-rnc" (02 06) is not compatible with the selected remote. This upgrade will not function correctly.
Please choose a different protocol."

I am trying to add a Discrete On and Off for Channel Master DVR+ to my URC-10820N remote. My remote can learn standard buttons
from the original remote (like Power), which should be using the same protocol (??), but when trying to add the Discrete functions,
it seems like RMIR is telling me it won't work. Does my remote have the ability thru RMIR to capture these functions.

I am really new to this (JP1 Remotes). I am somewhat confused, but have been getting by for simple upgrades. But this problem
is beyond my understanding. I am hoping there is something I can do to add these functions to my remote.

Thanks for any help you can provide,
Bob
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mdavej
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Joined: 08 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can't use that upgrade because the code for that protocol was never written for the kind of processor in that model remote. But you can add those two commands as additional learned commands as follows:

In RMIR, go to the Learned tab, click new and paste in the following, using Pronto format.

Discrete Off:
0000 006C 0022 0002 015B 00AD 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 05F7 015B 0057 0016 0E6C

Discrete On:
0000 006C 0022 0002 015B 00AD 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 05F7 015B 0057 0016 0E6C
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BobH



Joined: 13 May 2011
Posts: 12

                    
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 3:02 pm    Post subject: Thanks for the codes Reply with quote

Thank you so much. It worked like a charm.
It makes sense that new protocols are created after these old remotes were produced. Thanks for clearing that up. And also for
going to the trouble of solving my problem. Is there some link I can go to to learn/understand how you came up with this "pronto" code.

I really appreciate how helpful you guys are. Thanks again.
Bob
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mdavej
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Short of writing the protocol, the simplest way I saw to add a function is as a learn. Luckily, you can paste in learned codes as well as actually learn them. Pronto was the only format I knew how to generate. So I used IRScrutinizer, entered the protocol details and OBC (function codes) from the RMDU file, and clicked Generate, and pasted the code here for you to use.

Maybe user Barf can point to some documentation. But that would not have lead you to the idea of converting protocol/OBCs to Pronto then importing as learned codes. This is just a case where you probably would never have figured it out on your own. But there are also many ways to skin a cat, and mine may not be the most efficient or straight forward. I'm glad it worked though.
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you could re-create these as an upgrade using the NEC1-f16 Official protocol, or as keymoves. There is one built in setup code that uses that protocol, so you could do keymoves against it, it's Audio/2061.

To make the keymoves, you would need to enter 4 bytes of hex, as follows:

80 7F 74 B8 - Discrete Off
80 7F F4 B0 - Discrete On
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Barf
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or course, using learned signal format is suboptimal, in particular if NEC1-f16 is available.

The decoder (IrpTransmogrifier) generates all possible decodes for a signal, then suppresses all but one (ideally!) according to prefer-over data. With the --all option to IrpTransmogrifier, all decodes are given:
Code:
$ irptransmogrifier decode --all 0000 006C 0022 0002 015B 00AD 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 05F7 015B 0057 0016 0E6C
        NEC1-f16: {D=1,E=13,F=47}
        NEC1-rnc: {D=1,F=47}

There is presently no way to invoke the --all option in IrScrutinizer (or RM). (Although that may change in the future; opinions anyone?)

mdavej wrote:
Maybe user Barf can point to some documentation

There is or course the general documenatation for IrScrutinizer and IrpTransmogrifier.
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdavej wrote:
Pronto was the only format I knew how to generate. So I used IRScrutinizer, entered the protocol details and OBC (function codes) from the RMDU file, and clicked Generate, and pasted the code here for you to use.

No need to use IrScrutinizer, it can all be done with RMIR and RMDU. Open the .rmdu file with RMDU. Go to the File tab and select "Export as Girr or IRScope file". The default is Girr, so just save the file anywhere you like. Open the saved .girr file with a text editor. It lists all the signals of the upgrade in several forms. The Pronto code is that between the delimiters <ccf> and </ccf>.
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BobH



Joined: 13 May 2011
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To: The Robman
Thanks for a more preferred way to accomplish this task. I guess I wasn't clear when I mentioned that I was really new to JP1 remotes.
I should have said, "I am Really, Really, Really new." But I want to understand your solution. So here is what I have done:
1) Entered Setup code 2061 for my "AUD" button on my remote.
2) Downloaded the remote into RMIR.
3) Pressed the New button in the Key Moves tab to add these two Key Moves.
This is where my lack of understanding starts......
Where can I go to fully understand Key Moves and how to add them in RMIR? I have read "JP1 - Just How Easy Is It?", and it expains what Key Moves are (as does the URC10820N manual), but doesn't touch on the terminology found on the RMIR pop-up form "Key Move". Like what is the "Bound Key". Is this the "AUD" device the code is coming from or the device/key I want the key to be copied to? "Function to Perform" looks like where I enter the Hex codes you provided. But again, is this the Source device or the Target device? This looks like the Source Device as it includes a "Setup Code" field. If this is the case, then the format of this form is Target Device, then Source Device. Assuming this is the case, then I:
4) Entered the Bound Key - Device as: One of the devices I have set up on this remote [CBL].
5) Bound Key - Key = Vol+
6) Function to Perform - Device Type = Aud
7) Function to Perform - Setup Code = 2061
8) Radio Button = Hex
9) Hex Value = 80 7F F4 B0
10) [OK]
11) Repeated steps 3-10 for Discrete Off to Vol- key
12) Uploaded to Remote
13) Tried to control (turn on and off) the Channel Master DVR+ using my URB10820N remote [CBL] [Vol+] and [CBL] [Vol-]
And it didn't do anything. So obviously, I've not made the correct assumptions about something(s).

I am trying to learn more so I don't have to waste the time of the experts on simple tasks.

Also, how did you know the hex values for the key moves for Discrete On and Off?
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BobH



Joined: 13 May 2011
Posts: 12

                    
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
No need to use IrScrutinizer, it can all be done with RMIR and RMDU.

mathdon: This worked great. That certainly explains a quick way to capture the same hex string from within RMDU. I really appreciate the expert help all of you guys provide. You're truly amazing at what you know.
Thanks, Bob
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@BobH, it would be kinda complicated to explain how I got the hex code.

If you were to download the current memory from your remote using RMIR and save the RMIR file, and post it in the Diagnosis Area folder, then post a link to it here, I will add the keymoves for you.
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BobH



Joined: 13 May 2011
Posts: 12

                    
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@The Robman
I understand how the explanation of coming up with the hex code would be complicated. It is probably the culmination of many years of study, trial and error and would not lend itself to being explained in a few simple paragraphs. I just thought I'd ask in case it was straight forward.
Thank you for your offer and the time you've given my problem. However, the answer provided by mdavj, while probably not the absolute best way of handling the situation, did work for me and it is not an issue in the way I intend to use the data. I was just hoping to learn from your solution. It sounded interesting and I'd hoped I could learn from it. I didn't want to add more work to you, especially when I already had a solution that works for me. I just appreciate the knowledge you experts provide to everyone that visits this site.

Thanks again for everything you do here,
Bob
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to add the keymoves to your file, just to prove that my theory is correct.

If you really want the explanation, here goes. These signals are all variations of the standard NEC1 signal, which is a very well known structure. So, I took the learns that Dave posted and converted them to binary. I did this by replacing the "0016 0041" pairs with 0 and the "0016 0016" pairs with 1, then I copy/pasted the data into a spreadsheet and used the BIN2HEX function to convert the binary to hex, 8 bits at a time. The resulting hex is what is needed for the keymoves. (Note: I deliberately have the 1s and 0s backwards above because UEI executors always do the NEC protocols COMP'd).

You seemed to not understand how to enter the hex for the keymoves, so here's a guide.

1. In RMIR, go to the Keymoves tab
2. Click New
3. Bound Key: Pick a Device mode and key (this is the key that you wish to hold the new keymove). I will select DVD and CH+ for this example)
4. Ignore the Function to Perform section
5. For Device Type: select AUD
6. For Setup Code, enter 2061
7. Below that, select the HEX radio button
8. To the right of "Key" enter 80 7F F4 B0 in the box
9. In the Notes section enter: Discrete On

Then repeat all of the above with the following changes:
3. Pick DVD and CH-
8. Enter 80 7F 74 B8
9. Enter Discrete Off

Now, load it into the remote and disconnect it from the cable. To test it, put the remote in DVD mode and CH+ should turn your device on, CH- should turn it off.
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BobH



Joined: 13 May 2011
Posts: 12

                    
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2022 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ The Robman
Coming up with the hex for Key Moves:
SORRY if my response seemed like I was goading you into posting an explanation. I REALLY WAS NOT. I do recognise that a solution can be very complicated and beyond the understanding of others like myself. But thank you for posting it anyway. Maybe someone with a knowledge base that falls between what little I know and how much you understand will benefit from your post.

Guide to entering a Key Move:
From your detailed explanation, it sounds like I got lucky and performed the RMIR steps correctly. I must have done something else wrong. I will re-enter these steps again to see if it was a typo I made. I have also posted the RMIR file to:

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=26549

so that you can add the Key Moves correctly. I'm pretty sure I did something wrong in this upload, because I wasn't able to capture this
link (URL) using the upload instructions. But this should get you to the file. This RMIR contains only a few Learned Functions and the Audio device 2061. If I did something wrong and need to re-do, please let me know.
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mdavej
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2022 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be helpful to see the RMIR file with your key move attempts so we can see what went wrong. My guess is the volume punch thru setting over-rode your key moves on the volume buttons. So just turn punch thru off for that device.
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BobH



Joined: 13 May 2011
Posts: 12

                    
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2022 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I posted the RMIR file at:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=26550

I had a little time figuring out how to turn off Punch Thru, but I think I finally found it. Uploaded my config and it still didn't work. I also did Key Moves to two other buttons (not Volumes) and it didn't work. So I posted my RMIR file so you can look at it.

The Learned Signals for SAT-L1 & L2 found in this RMIR do succeed in performing the Discrete On & Off for this device if that helps.
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