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RF Capabiities of URC2125
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I won't know what I can do with the dongle till I get it, so no promises but nothing ruled out either. Are you able to confirm that the 3220-R and 2135-R you can get are the BC0 versions? If they are then I would definitely like one of each. If they are later, say BC1, or you can't tell the version, they may not have the JP1 connectivity so it would be good to have a photo in which the connector (external for the 3320 but in the battery compartment for the 2135) is visible. I would probably take the risk anyway as $10 or so is not much to risk, but in that case please get back to me first before ordering. Many thanks for helping me in this way.

I'm not clear what you want to do with the dongle, as my understanding is that it converts RF to IR yet you are talking about wanting to control RF equipment. It's the remote itself that generates the RF according to the RF4CE spec. The issue is can we get these remotes to pair with equipment they were not designed for. Once paired, the signals to perform particular operations seem to be standardized. Different IR equipment uses different OBCs for the same function but the RF equivalents are fixed by the RF4CE standard. The reason I want the dongle is that these remotes will not send out RF (other than a pairing request) unless they are paired with something. I presume they will pair with the dongle, which will help me understand what pairing does to the remote.
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DDE12



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have purchased both. The used 2135 ($9.97) had a picture of the battery compartment with JP1 pins and BCO on the label. The new 3320 ($10.73 was in package, so I will open it and make sure it will work for you.

For the dongle, it would be cool if it could programmed to send the whole "database" of IR signals, not just cable boxes. I'm interested to see if the remotes can be used to control other RF devices in the RF4CE protocol.

Here is a download from the 2125 after it is paired to the dongle, I think. I don't have a cable box to test it, but maybe a device upgrade with that code would work. Let me know if you would like me to try something else for you to look at while I am collecting your remotes.
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that download. The remote is definitely paired to the dongle, and the IR setup code for the cable box is STB/3028, which uses the Nokia32 protocol and is in the remote as a device upgrade. The interesting question is what IR the dongle sends when the remote sends RF. Is it also STB/3028 and if so, can that be changed by changing the cable setup in the remote?

I don't think there is more that you can do at present, as I don't think you have either a Packet Sniffer (to read the RF signals) or an IR Widget or similar (to read the IR signals). I have both, so should be able to investigate these and other questions in due course.

Many thanks for ordering the other two remotes for me.
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2021 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edit: IGNORE THIS. I was not paying proper attention. The only purpose of the USB connection seems to be to provide power. The LED does blink, the device error message is irrelevant.

DDE12 wrote:
Here is a download from the 2125 after it is paired to the dongle, I think. I don't have a cable box to test it, but maybe a device upgrade with that code would work.

Many thanks for the remotes and adapter, which have arrived safely. How did you do the pairing? The first step seems to be to plug the RF Adapter into a USB slot on the set-top box, when it should start blinking. I have tried plugging it into my PC, which says that it is an unrecognised device and has been disabled. I have a Sky set-top box and have found that it does have a USB port, but when I plug the adapter into that, again nothing happens, no blinking. So can you tell me how you got it working, at least to the point of being able to do a pairing, please?
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@DDE12

With the small amount of testing that I have been able to do so far, I have found that with the dongle paired with the URC2125BC0, the IR that the dongle sends out is setup code STB/1998. The pairing instructions for the dongle have section 6 that gives a table of Model Names and corresponding Device IDs. The first Device ID is C1998, so it appears that those IDs are UEI setup codes, as I would have expected but this is confirmation.

That table, however, says "Enter the 5 digit code for your brand of Set-top box (see below). The RF ADAPTER LED will blink twice to confirm code entry." It is unclear to me what this means, the first character of all the listed codes is C, not a digit, and nothing I have tried has made the LED blink twice. I have tried interpreting C as digit 2, as that is also labelled "abc", and also as the button labelled C that is also the Red button. Neither work. Have you found how to enter those codes, or have you any other ideas of what should be pressed to correspond to C?
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Mark Pierson
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2021 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mathdon wrote:
@DDE12
That table, however, says "Enter the 5 digit code for your brand of Set-top box (see below). The RF ADAPTER LED will blink twice to confirm code entry." It is unclear to me what this means, the first character of all the listed codes is C, not a digit, and nothing I have tried has made the LED blink twice. I have tried interpreting C as digit 2, as that is also labelled "abc", and also as the button labelled C that is also the Red button. Neither work. Have you found how to enter those codes, or have you any other ideas of what should be pressed to correspond to C?

Could the "C" mean the Cable button? Cable-#-#-#-#
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DDE12



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2021 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try putting this RMIR file into the 2125 and then pair to the dongle. Push buttons on the remote and use your equipment to see what IR is being sent from the dongle. Make sure that when you press a button on the remote (in STB mode) that the dongle light flashes, otherwise I don't believe it is paired and receiving RF from the remote.

Note: as long as the dongle has power I think it will pair with the remote. I was able to get it paired when dongle was connected to PC, to Roku, and plugged into outlet power brick. It seems that occasionally, when the dongle loses power, it will unpair from the remote.
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark Pierson wrote:
Could the "C" mean the Cable button? Cable-#-#-#-#

A good suggestion but it doesn't work. There isn't a Cable button on the remote, but there is an STB button, so I tried that. No luck, and I found that pressing a device button doesn't send an RF signal anyway, so the RF Adapter doesn't even know it has been pressed.

DDE12 wrote:
Try putting this RMIR file into the 2125 and then pair to the dongle. Push buttons on the remote and use your equipment to see what IR is being sent from the dongle. Make sure that when you press a button on the remote (in STB mode) that the dongle light flashes, otherwise I don't believe it is paired and receiving RF from the remote.

I have tried this but found that with your file loaded into the 2125, it won't pair with the adapter. The adapter retained the previous pairing and responded again when I re-loaded a .rmir file with my previous paired setup.

DDE12 wrote:
It seems that occasionally, when the dongle loses power, it will unpair from the remote.

I haven't found that, but what I have found is that when you plug the adapter into a USB port, its LED stays off for 5 seconds, flashes for 10 seconds (in which time it is available for pairing) and then goes off again if it has never been paired, or stays on (having returned to its previous pairing) if there was one, if the new pairing attempt failed. Why at first I thought that the adapter was not working was because I was distracted by the error message from the PC about it being an unrecognised device and so missed the only 10-second period in which the LED was flashing.

I still find that whatever I do to the remote or the adapter, the IR signals it sends are for STB/1998. It is called a "Universal RF4CE to IR Adapter" so surely there must be a way of changing the IR that it sends? I am disturbed by the following info from this support site for the adapter: "NOTE: If the adapter responds to button presses but doesn't control the set-top box, you'll need to exchange the adapter at a SaskTel Store." That's not my idea of "Universal".
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am finding the pairing issue very puzzling. I now have two URC2125BC0's, the one just received from DDE12 which has no brand name (and which came with the RF Adapter new, in a single package) and the one branded Rogers with data in the RFToolsTest folder of RMIR. They are not quite identical but appear to differ only in some button names. The STB button on the one from DDE12 is labelled Cable on the Rogers one, for example. The RogersTest.rmir file contains valid pairing data but when loaded into the Rogers remote, it will not pair with the RF Adapter. If, however, I load the Rogers remote with the setup that was in the new one from DDE12 then it will pair with the adapter. It makes me wonder if the setup in the remote contains some identifier of which adapter it will pair with, since DDE12's own remote will pair with his adapter but the same setup in my remote will not pair with my adapter (see previous post). I will need to explore this in more detail.
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DDE12



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try this rmir. I'm trying to make a new rdf for the 2125G as some of the buttons are in different locations and is confusing me. That previous file was from that not quite complete rdf that only I have.

I have not had any of the trouble you have had except for the confirmation blinking. I don't think I have had any of the described confirmation blinking but have apparently been able to accomplish the tasks I am attempting. I don't think you are having a problem with most of the following but I will provide for reproducibility.

Steps I use to pair
1. Press and hold the UP cursor, then press and hold the SETUP button until the green STB button begins blinking.
2. Plug the dongle into a power source. It's green light will begin flashing rapidly. In a short period of time, the remote's STB button will stop flashing and the dongle light will remain solid green.
3. Pressing buttons on the remote will cause the dongle light to flash. I believe the pair is complete and successful at this point. Further evidence of success is that using a phone camera there is nothing seen on the remote IR emitters but light is seen on dongle from it's emitter when remote buttons are pressed.
Observation: If the dongle is unplugged the remote seems to recognize it's absence as the STB light will remain on only briefly when a button is held. STB will flash when button is held when dongle is present.

Can you post the .rmir you are working with from your 2125G?

I did some experimentation and came up with these rmir files
I followed these instructions in the General Tab of RMIR
Quote:
Use this panel to set permitted IR and RF setup code pairs for an RF-enabled device. After uploading, press and hold Setup and the appropriate selector button together for 3 seconds to set the new values in the remote. RF setup codes cannot be set directly in the Device Buttons panel above, as this would omit necessary side effects in the remote. The Code Selector on the toolbar can be used to set both codes and to ensure the set values are valid.


If the remote is paired to the dongle this will unpair it and switch to the IR setup code for that Selector- the remote will then send IR signals for that code on the STB mode. This seems to basically allow us to have 4 devices in the STB mode. This sequence will also change the CableRF Setup code in the Device Buttons table for that Selector.
This same functionality appears to be present in my Titan 2056's (both versions) but RMIR doesn't provide access to it.
I am wondering if this section of RMIR has combined IR features of the remote with similar but separate RF features.
I think if we can answer Mathdon's question of what the "C" button is, we might be able to know more about what's going on with the RF setup.
Also, if the remote is unpaired with this sequence, uploading a RMIR that was paired to the dongle will not re-pair it. I have to go through the pairing process again.


Last edited by DDE12 on Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:08 pm; edited 3 times in total
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MaskedMan
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OFF TOPIC: Does the urc-2125 accept efc's on the remote itself? Trying to help someone at remote central:


http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/mboard/rc-one4all/thread.cgi?5777,last#last
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DDE12



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaskedMan wrote:
OFF TOPIC: Does the urc-2125 accept efc's on the remote itself? Trying to help someone at remote central:

It does not appear to and doesn't appear to have 9-9-4 function.
Following these instructions:
1. TAP and release setup button.
2. Enter EFC code (3-5 digits long depending on remote).
When this is done on a Titan 2056, the device button blinks only once until the last EFC digit and then flashes as it sends the IR signal. The 2125 mode button flashes on the first key press/hold after pressing SETUP.
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DDE12, thanks for the new info. I mostly agree with what you say about pairing, but when the dongle LED is solid green, it means that the dongle is paired with something, which seems always to be whatever was the last successful pairing. You say "if the remote is unpaired with this sequence, uploading a RMIR that was paired to the dongle will not re-pair it". That is not my experience, but what you upload needs to be a saved setup from that last successful pairing, as the .rmir file contains all the identifying info that the dongle sent to the remote during that pairing.

DDE12 wrote:
If the dongle is unplugged the remote seems to recognize it's absence as the STB light will remain on only briefly when a button is held. STB will flash when button is held when dongle is present.

Yes, the dongle sends an acknowledgement of receipt back to the remote. If that is not received, the remote knows that the receiving device (the dongle in this case) is not available.

I have resolved the issue of my remote not pairing when loaded with your Test 01 file. I found that it would pair OK with the Yellow selector, which sets RF cable code to 4677 but not with the others that set it to 3989. The info from the RF code that is used in pairing is the Vendor ID and Vendor String. These are visible, and editable, in the Device Upgrade Editor when you edit an RF code, on its RF Vendor Data tab. The values for 4677 are essentially null, showing as zeroes or spaces, but there are real values for 3989. So I edited those values for 3989 back to the null ones and then it paired OK. I don't understand why I need to do that and you don't, but at least it is worked around if not fully understood.

With this fixed, I was able to see what IR signals the dongle sends with your Red setting, cable IR of STB/1376 which is Roku Official protocol and cable RF of STB/3989. Unfortunately it still sends STB/1998 IR signals, the Nokia 32 protocol, though a few buttons send different OBCs from when the RF is STB/4677. This is because those functions have different assignments of the RF equivalent of OBCs, so not because we have been able to change the IR setup code used by the dongle. How to change that is still a mystery.

Quote:
This same functionality appears to be present in my Titan 2056's (both versions) but RMIR doesn't provide access to it.
I am wondering if this section of RMIR has combined IR features of the remote with similar but separate RF features.

The same process of holding Setup together with another button (usually one of the coloured ones) is present in the Titan to set the Cable setup code to one of four values, but it is not supported in RMIR as RMIR provides other means to change the Cable setup code. It is supported in RF remotes as it provides the only way to change the Cable codes. Editing them directly in the Device Buttons panel would omit certain essential side effects in the remote, as the note above the RF Selectors panel explains. You should not use this facility in either the Titan or an RF remote as a setup code multiplexer of the sort that is present in extenders, as it rewrites the whole of the setup flash each time you use it. The multiplexer in extenders changes only values in RAM.
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DDE12



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mathdon wrote:
...but what you upload needs to be a saved setup from that last successful pairing, as the .rmir file contains all the identifying info that the dongle sent to the remote during that pairing.

I think that I re-uploaded the file I downloaded from the remote instead of opening the saved RMIR file with the pairing and uploading it again. I will test when I get some time.

Mathdon, have you tried/can you try the following: Enter 1376, 1877, 1982, 2187 under IR Setup Code for each selector and then 3985, 3986 3987, 3988 under RF Setup Code. Then go through the Setup + Selector process followed by unplugging the dongle and then going through the pairing process again and doing this for each of the four selectors. Then check to see if any of those will be something other than 1998?

I have tried to use several of my learning remotes to learn the signal from the dongle but they are timing out. Have you tried to learn with a remote or know why it won't work?

I have also paired the URC-6251 remote to the Dongle but had to do a 980 reset to follow the pairing procedure. I had to continue the 980 reset anytime I wanted to go through the pair procedure as that button combination was inactivated after pairing. I did not seem to have any luck entering one of the 5 digit codes on that remote either (i.e. C-####).

Have you experimented with the other remotes and maybe gained any further insight on what the "C" is?

When I get time, I plan to open the dongle and solder a JP1 connection and try to get some info from it through RMIR. There is a very clear picture on the FCC site of where the wires are soldered to the board. I will post for some help on that project in the hardware forum. We have an RDF for the non RF version of the 6251 remote (the 6250). I have seen several pictures of the 6250 and don't see any JP1 connection, so I think someone must have modified it.
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are my findings so far on the URC-2135BC0. This is the first remote we have encountered that has a GreenPeak GP565 processor and has both a JP1 connector and RF capabilities. This report concerns only IR, I will report later on its RF capabilities. The FCC report on this remote includes internal and external photos and also a user manual. However, UEI appears to have revised the RF pairing method since supplying the FCC with that manual so it is better to refer to the official UEI manual here.

On first sight of both the remote and its manual, this is a very limited remote. It has no setup button and no device buttons. Almost all buttons control a cable box and there is no user method of changing the setup code for that box. The manual gives instructions for setting codes for a TV and an Audio device and for selecting whether the volume buttons and the Input button send TV or Audio signals. That is about it in terms of flexibility.

However, this is in fact very misleading. It is actually a 4-device remote that has been configured into this limited form by extensive use of punchthroughs. RMIR will allow you to delete all the punchthroughs and reveal the 4-device remote that lies underneath them. The four devices are TV, STB, DVD and Audio and there are keycodes for corresponding device buttons even though those buttons do not physically exist on the remote. The remote has the usual four colored buttons yellow, blue, red and green that are also labelled A, B, C, D. Of these, A and B are apparently preconfigured in firmware to serve as TV and Audio device buttons. The remote supports macros (more on this below) and if macros are set on C and D with the (virtual) STB and DVD keys then A, B, C, D become the four device buttons and you have a 4-device remote.

Pressing Mute and OK together acts as Setup for setting setup codes manually and for 9xx codes. If a 9xx code requires Setup to be pressed to end its input then Mute on its own serves this purpose. I have not fully explored 9xx codes but it supports 995 to create a macro, 983 for signature blink-back and 990 for setup code blink-back. Unfortunately it does not support key moves, either with a 994 command or with RMIR, nor does it support 981 for a factory reset.

The punchthrough features that are supported are Volume, Channel and Input punchthroughs per device (Input is just for the Input button) as set on the Device Buttons panel of RMIR and global punchthrough which has its own tab in RMIR. The limitations in the remote as supplied are achieved by a global punchthrough to the STB device of all buttons that are not covered by the three per-device punchthroughs.

I hope shortly to post a development version of RMIR that supports this remote and enables its 4-device capabilities to be used.
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