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StephenR0
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 109
Location: Iowa, US
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 Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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So, when I was exploring what was possible with macros, I realized that the Button Group assignments and the corresponding devices in the Activities tab are the only buttons that are actually available in each activity. This is why the shifted buttons aren't available in activities. But I do use shifted buttons in the global macros that I assign to each activity. These macros control the hdmi input in my home theater system.
Before Graham found the DSMs, I had two global macros that switched between two picture modes in my plasma TV. There's no discrete for this function, so I needed to traverse the menu in the TV. Since these macros needed to select the TV device, when the macros ends, it wasn't in the activity anymore. So, I had to add an activity button at the end of the macro. This meant that executing the macro in another activity made it necessary to re-execute the correct activity to be able to control that device again. But with DSMs, I was able to split that global macro into separate DSM macros that were identical except the final activity button is the one for the correct device. I think this is going to be a good work around for not being able return to the previous device function that extenders provide. Hopefully some of this helps. |
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Ed
Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 262
Location: Ft. Worth, TX
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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Very helpful, but I think I'm not completely understanding. Thank you. A couple questions from here:
| StephenR0 wrote: | | So, when I was exploring what was possible with macros, I realized that the Button Group assignments and the corresponding devices in the Activities tab are the only buttons that are actually available in each activity. This is why the shifted buttons aren't available in activities. But I do use shifted buttons in the global macros that I assign to each activity. These macros control the hdmi input in my home theater system. |
Hmm. I have assigned several functions to shifted buttons in my activities. In particular, I assigned discrete on and off to shift 1 and shift 0 for my receiver and my TV. Both of these work fine in a simple WatchTV macro I built. Am I missing your point?
| StephenR0 wrote: | | Before Graham found the DSMs, I had two global macros that switched between two picture modes in my plasma TV. There's no discrete for this function, so I needed to traverse the menu in the TV. Since these macros needed to select the TV device, when the macros ends, it wasn't in the activity anymore. So, I had to add an activity button at the end of the macro. This meant that executing the macro in another activity made it necessary to re-execute the correct activity to be able to control that device again. But with DSMs, I was able to split that global macro into separate DSM macros that were identical except the final activity button is the one for the correct device. I think this is going to be a good work around for not being able return to the previous device function that extenders provide. Hopefully some of this helps. |
Ah, I never thought about this! So, if I have a simple macro on WatchTV where I select the TV device to turn it on, then select the AUD device to turn it on, I'm no longer in the WatchTV activity mode? If so, then running WatchTV as the final command in the macro executes it again and we're in an endless loop? I'm going to have to think through again what you did in this case. |
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StephenR0
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 109
Location: Iowa, US
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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I can't say that I explored shifted macros in activities extensively. Since you got it to work, I'll have to look at it some more.
From what I can tell, using the activity buttons in a macro doesn't re-execute the macro on that button. At least, that's what it seems.
Edit: Rereading your post, are you talking about the global macro on the activity button? If so, using a device button in that macro doesn't disable the activity. When the macro ends, the activity is still active. I've never needed to re-execute the activity button at the end of that macro.
Even further edit: In the first part of my previous post, I should have been more clear. I was referring to macros on buttons available when the activity is active. This would be global macros and device specific macros. The global macro on the activity button is a different case. |
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Ed
Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 262
Location: Ft. Worth, TX
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| StephenR0 wrote: | I can't say that I explored shifted macros in activities extensively. Since you got it to work, I'll have to look at it some more.
From what I can tell, using the activity buttons in a macro doesn't re-execute the macro on that button. At least, that's what it seems.
Edit: Rereading your post, are you talking about the global macro on the activity button? If so, using a device button in that macro doesn't disable the activity. When the macro ends, the activity is still active. I've never needed to re-execute the activity button at the end of that macro. |
Yes. I haven't gotten to DSMs quite yet. It's good to know that my approach will work. I did a bit of testing and it seemed fine, but I didn't press too hard.
| StephenR0 wrote: | | Even further edit: In the first part of my previous post, I should have been more clear. I was referring to macros on buttons available when the activity is active. This would be global macros and device specific macros. The global macro on the activity button is a different case. |
I think I could have been more clear, too. I thought you were saying that shifted buttons were not available inside an activity because they aren't in any button groups. My point was that I have functions assigned to shifted buttons that I use in my (global) WatchTV macro.
Have you had any luck with controlled macros? I'd really like to put them on activities but RMIR is not allowing me to do that. I'm hoping that's just a bug (with apologies to Graham). |
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StephenR0
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 109
Location: Iowa, US
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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As I mentioned, I'm using shifted buttons in the global activity button macros, too. I'm sure that works because I've used it for a long time.
I have no experience with controlled macros yet. I'll have to explore them, but I don't seem to need them, so far. I suppose I could see if I could get my tv menu traversal macros to run faster. But it seems to work just fine as it is. |
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Ed
Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 262
Location: Ft. Worth, TX
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| StephenR0 wrote: | As I mentioned, I'm using shifted buttons in the global activity button macros, too. I'm sure that works because I've used it for a long time.
I have no experience with controlled macros yet. I'll have to explore them, but I don't seem to need them, so far. I suppose I could see if I could get my tv menu traversal macros to run faster. But it seems to work just fine as it is. |
I'm looking forward to getting controlled macros working. One of my biggest problems with remotes is that my wife simply cannot be bothered to wait patiently with the remote pointing at our setup until the macro quits firing. Then she complains to me that "the TV is not working". Slow-running macros detract from the "wife acceptance factor" <smiles>. This factor is most prominent on start up or shut down, when multiple devices need to be powered up and configured. |
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Lurker
Joined: 11 Apr 2004
Posts: 120
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Ed wrote: | | One of my biggest problems with remotes is that my wife simply cannot be bothered to wait patiently with the remote pointing at our setup until the macro quits firing. Then she complains to me that "the TV is not working". Slow-running macros detract from the "wife acceptance factor" <smiles>. This factor is most prominent on start up or shut down, when multiple devices need to be powered up and configured. |
This is exactly what forced me to abandon the OAR remote and go back to old remotes that support fast macros. Unfortunately, those remotes are becoming more rare and harder to find every day. |
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Ed
Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 262
Location: Ft. Worth, TX
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 1:14 am Post subject: |
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| Lurker wrote: | | Ed wrote: | | One of my biggest problems with remotes is that my wife simply cannot be bothered to wait patiently with the remote pointing at our setup until the macro quits firing. Then she complains to me that "the TV is not working". Slow-running macros detract from the "wife acceptance factor" <smiles>. This factor is most prominent on start up or shut down, when multiple devices need to be powered up and configured. |
This is exactly what forced me to abandon the OAR remote and go back to old remotes that support fast macros. Unfortunately, those remotes are becoming more rare and harder to find every day. |
For awhile, my wife and I had URC 8811 and 8910 remotes. They were enough alike that the key assignments were quite similar and the extenders for each allowed very fast macros. Alas, each developed problems that weren't easy to fix, and it took hours to fire up my XP computer to program them, and we had to switch. I still have them. We went through a couple of remotes before settling on the OAR, programmed identically for each of us.
I really like the OAR remote. It feels good in the hand, it doesn't have "too many" keys and the extender and accompanying documentation Graham produced are just outstanding. Unfortunately, as you point out, macros are slow to execute and that can't be fixed. They're also getting hard to find. A couple months ago, I thought I'd bricked mine, and when I went looking for a replacement, I didn't find much. Fortunately, I managed to "fix" my OAR.
I'm really hoping this 7880 is the next solution. A "streamer" remote just won't work for my setup. |
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Lurker
Joined: 11 Apr 2004
Posts: 120
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Ed wrote: |
I really like the OAR remote. It feels good in the hand, it doesn't have "too many" keys and the extender and accompanying documentation Graham produced are just outstanding. Unfortunately, as you point out, macros are slow to execute and that can't be fixed. They're also getting hard to find. A couple months ago, I thought I'd bricked mine, and when I went looking for a replacement, I didn't find much. Fortunately, I managed to "fix" my OAR.
I'm really hoping this 7880 is the next solution. A "streamer" remote just won't work for my setup. |
For me, fast macros is the #1 requirement. I would be interested in any new remote with this feature. I tried to make the OAR work for several months, but in the end I had to give up. There were problems constantly no matter what I tried. |
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eah123
Joined: 23 Dec 2016
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Lurker wrote: | | Ed wrote: |
I really like the OAR remote. It feels good in the hand, it doesn't have "too many" keys and the extender and accompanying documentation Graham produced are just outstanding. Unfortunately, as you point out, macros are slow to execute and that can't be fixed. They're also getting hard to find. A couple months ago, I thought I'd bricked mine, and when I went looking for a replacement, I didn't find much. Fortunately, I managed to "fix" my OAR.
I'm really hoping this 7880 is the next solution. A "streamer" remote just won't work for my setup. |
For me, fast macros is the #1 requirement. I would be interested in any new remote with this feature. I tried to make the OAR work for several months, but in the end I had to give up. There were problems constantly no matter what I tried. |
Yes, slow macros and time-delayed macros suck. On the URC-7880, there is a 3-second delay before Macros On Activities, and also the Activities Power button Device Power Toggle button hold-down delay. But macros associated with any other button are fast by default, and can be controlled using Controlled Macros RMIR that lets you control duration/delay. I'm using the Amazon/Netflix/Youtube buttons with Macros that instantly switch to Activities and toggle power on all of the Activity-associated devices. It works very well! |
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Ed
Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 262
Location: Ft. Worth, TX
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| eah123 wrote: | | Lurker wrote: | | Ed wrote: |
I really like the OAR remote. It feels good in the hand, it doesn't have "too many" keys and the extender and accompanying documentation Graham produced are just outstanding. Unfortunately, as you point out, macros are slow to execute and that can't be fixed. They're also getting hard to find. A couple months ago, I thought I'd bricked mine, and when I went looking for a replacement, I didn't find much. Fortunately, I managed to "fix" my OAR.
I'm really hoping this 7880 is the next solution. A "streamer" remote just won't work for my setup. |
For me, fast macros is the #1 requirement. I would be interested in any new remote with this feature. I tried to make the OAR work for several months, but in the end I had to give up. There were problems constantly no matter what I tried. |
Yes, slow macros and time-delayed macros suck. On the URC-7880, there is a 3-second delay before Macros On Activities, and also the Activities Power button Device Power Toggle button hold-down delay. But macros associated with any other button are fast by default, and can be controlled using Controlled Macros RMIR that lets you control duration/delay. I'm using the Amazon/Netflix/Youtube buttons with Macros that instantly switch to Activities and toggle power on all of the Activity-associated devices. It works very well! |
So, I think you're saying that controlled macros are not allowed on Activity buttons. Is that right? If so, then that's a shame in my opinion, because that would be the ideal place, in my set up, to put controlled macros.
I understand the 3-second delay before starting a macro on an activity button due to the need to scroll through them until you get the one you want. But once you get there, I don't understand why you couldn't have a controlled macro; i.e., once it starts executing, execute as fast (or slow) as possible or necessary. I also understand the power button "hold" time delay. Both the front-end and back-end macros are hard coded and can't be changed. |
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eah123
Joined: 23 Dec 2016
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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So, I think you're saying that controlled macros are not allowed on Activity buttons. Is that right? If so, then that's a shame in my opinion, because that would be the ideal place, in my set up, to put controlled macros.
I understand the 3-second delay before starting a macro on an activity button due to the need to scroll through them until you get the one you want. But once you get there, I don't understand why you couldn't have a controlled macro; i.e., once it starts executing, execute as fast (or slow) as possible or necessary. I also understand the power button "hold" time delay. Both the front-end and back-end macros are hard coded and can't be changed. |
No, you should be able to use a controlled macro for Activities. It’s the 3 second delay that can’t be removed. That’s because it want to make sure you are not scrolling to the next activity before activating the macro. However, if I program another button like the Netflix button to select the Activity using a Keymove, there is still a 3 second delay before the On Activity Macro. So the easy solution is to program the Macro you want On Activity to the Netflix button instead.
On Activity Watch TV Macro: toggle power TV, toggle power AUD, toggle power STB.
Keymove Activity Watch TV to Netflix button
Instead (no delay)
Netflix button Macro: toggle power TV, toggle power AUD, toggle power STB, Activity Watch TV |
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Ed
Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 262
Location: Ft. Worth, TX
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| eah123 wrote: | | Quote: |
So, I think you're saying that controlled macros are not allowed on Activity buttons. Is that right? If so, then that's a shame in my opinion, because that would be the ideal place, in my set up, to put controlled macros.
I understand the 3-second delay before starting a macro on an activity button due to the need to scroll through them until you get the one you want. But once you get there, I don't understand why you couldn't have a controlled macro; i.e., once it starts executing, execute as fast (or slow) as possible or necessary. I also understand the power button "hold" time delay. Both the front-end and back-end macros are hard coded and can't be changed. |
No, you should be able to use a controlled macro for Activities. It’s the 3 second delay that can’t be removed. That’s because it want to make sure you are not scrolling to the next activity before activating the macro. However, if I program another button like the Netflix button to select the Activity using a Keymove, there is still a 3 second delay before the On Activity Macro. So the easy solution is to program the Macro you want On Activity to the Netflix button instead.
On Activity Watch TV Macro: toggle power TV, toggle power AUD, toggle power STB.
Keymove Activity Watch TV to Netflix button
Instead (no delay)
Netflix button Macro: toggle power TV, toggle power AUD, toggle power STB, Activity Watch TV |
I understand what you're saying. Thank you!
One problem I'm having is that RMIR is not letting me put a controlled macro on an activity (see what I've posted above). For example, "WatchTV" is not given as an available "bound to" button for a controlled macro. I'd like to understand that before I go much further, whether I actually put a controlled macro on an activity or not.
I see where you work around the front-end macro delay by using another button to which to bind the macro and then executing WatchTV within that macro. I assume you still must take that front-end delay at the end of your macro but then it's immaterial to you. Do I have that right? If I may say so, that's a clever approach and I'm going to have to think about how to use it with my setup. |
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eah123
Joined: 23 Dec 2016
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Ed wrote: | | eah123 wrote: | | Quote: |
So, I think you're saying that controlled macros are not allowed on Activity buttons. Is that right? If so, then that's a shame in my opinion, because that would be the ideal place, in my set up, to put controlled macros.
I understand the 3-second delay before starting a macro on an activity button due to the need to scroll through them until you get the one you want. But once you get there, I don't understand why you couldn't have a controlled macro; i.e., once it starts executing, execute as fast (or slow) as possible or necessary. I also understand the power button "hold" time delay. Both the front-end and back-end macros are hard coded and can't be changed. |
No, you should be able to use a controlled macro for Activities. It’s the 3 second delay that can’t be removed. That’s because it want to make sure you are not scrolling to the next activity before activating the macro. However, if I program another button like the Netflix button to select the Activity using a Keymove, there is still a 3 second delay before the On Activity Macro. So the easy solution is to program the Macro you want On Activity to the Netflix button instead.
On Activity Watch TV Macro: toggle power TV, toggle power AUD, toggle power STB.
Keymove Activity Watch TV to Netflix button
Instead (no delay)
Netflix button Macro: toggle power TV, toggle power AUD, toggle power STB, Activity Watch TV |
I understand what you're saying. Thank you!
One problem I'm having is that RMIR is not letting me put a controlled macro on an activity (see what I've posted above). For example, "WatchTV" is not given as an available "bound to" button for a controlled macro. I'd like to understand that before I go much further, whether I actually put a controlled macro on an activity or not.
I see where you work around the front-end macro delay by using another button to which to bind the macro and then executing WatchTV within that macro. I assume you still must take that front-end delay at the end of your macro but then it's immaterial to you. Do I have that right? If I may say so, that's a clever approach and I'm going to have to think about how to use it with my setup. |
You are right - I just checked RMIR, and activities are not available as "bound to" buttons under Controlled macros in RMIR, only Normal macros. @mathdon is this something that can be added to the next RMIR update, or are Controlled macros unavailable due to hardcoding in the remote?
Regarding your other questions, I just checked, and no, if there is no Macro bound to an Activity, then there is no 3-second lockout of the next button in the Macro. So it doesn't matter if place the WatchTV as the first or last button in the Macro sequence. I've not tested Macro-in-Macro, but I understand that is often wonky. |
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Ed
Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 262
Location: Ft. Worth, TX
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| eah123 wrote: | You are right - I just checked RMIR, and activities are not available as "bound to" buttons under Controlled macros in RMIR, only Normal macros. @mathdon is this something that can be added to the next RMIR update, or are Controlled macros unavailable due to hardcoding in the remote?
Regarding your other questions, I just checked, and no, if there is no Macro bound to an Activity, then there is no 3-second lockout of the next button in the Macro. So it doesn't matter if place the WatchTV as the first or last button in the Macro sequence. I've not tested Macro-in-Macro, but I understand that is often wonky. |
I had a couple other questions for Graham above as well. We're early in the implementation of this new functionality, and I'm happy to help with testing if I can.
I've been thinking about your approach to macros on activities and, while I like it, I don't like that it uses extra keys; i.e., if you have three activities, then your approach uses three activity keys and three other keys to bind to the macros. We save those extra keys if we can put the macros on the activities directly, at a price of the front-end delay. |
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