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JP1 Remotes
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n8nagel
Joined: 03 Jun 2018 Posts: 185
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Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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I've been playing with this and I think the one specific fault is that something in the macro for Watch OTA TV is making the TV think that it is being switched to HDMI 1. I think it is something that happens after the command for INPUT ANT is sent. Any ideas?
Edit: I was wrong. It's the HDMI switch discrete OFF signal, it's causing the input menu to pop up on the right hand side of the TV screen (acts like "input toggle" - if I press it again, each press advances the input on the TV) I guess for now the workaround is to not turn the HDMI switch off in the macro as it doesn't hurt anything to leave it on. However, I don't understand why it's doing this?
HDMI Switch OFF - NEC1 254.1.31
all commands known for TV are NEC1 2.125 or 64.191
Oddly, I can't seem to find a button that causes this action either on the Xsight or on the Harmony. So this is a new and exciting feature...
Also, the "5" button on the HDMI switch remote seems to power toggle the TV. So I thought, well, if I ever need to program in Input 5 I'll just select 4 and then UP or 1 and then DOWN.
Well, UP on the HDMI switch remote causes Channel+ on the TV
DOWN on the HDMI switch remote causes 5 on the TV
I'm really starting to hate this TV.
Another edit:
I've found that while in the "Watch Roku" activity if I hit "guide" it pops up the guide for the TV. I don't know why this is happening as that should be a null (tied to dummy device "Shut Down" whose purpose is to a) contain the power off macro and b) put up a message "Use Device Remote" for Roku, Chromecast, or Fire Stick) Am going to factory reset the remote and reupload and see if that does anything.
Another edit:
Factory reset fixed that problem. Apparently these things get confused if you bang them with multiple uploads without a reset.
I'm still getting super frustrated with this setup. I just reuploaded the files; everything is more or less working other than the above BUT for some reason the Oppo will eject during startup but only when I start the Watch Roku activity; also, I apparently need more delays. I already lengthened them, but when I cold start the Oppo and it was powered off in BDP mode, it needs more. grr snarl snarl.
I'm *this* close to just getting a new TV as this one really isn't that great; even though the Oppo will bottleneck everything at 1080p the TV is actually only 780p. However what guarantee do I have that I won't be in the exact same position WRT the TV picking up weird s**t from random other remote codes?
Last edited by n8nagel on Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mdavej Expert
Joined: 08 Oct 2003 Posts: 4501
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Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the detective work. But can you please summarize what you found on the Insignia discretes? Your file looks identical to my original file.
I also see your TV is a 32" model, where all the discretes already work. As I said in my notes in my upgrade, those discretes work in all Insignia Fire TV models under 43". So there are no missing commands to be found.
What exactly is the problem? I'm still scratching my head over this since these commands were already documented and tested very thoroughly on multiple Insignia models. |
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n8nagel
Joined: 03 Jun 2018 Posts: 185
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Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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For some reason the commands seemed to work better if I changed the second device from 64 with no sub device to 64.191.
I had to change the arrows, OK, and BACK to your "Alt" codes to get them to work with this specific TV
Now I'm having issues with random stuff that shouldn't work with the TV causing actions that I didn't expect (see last message). Are the IR signals close enough to each other for this to happen, or do you think maybe this TV actually supports multiple codesets? |
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The Robman Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Posts: 21237 Location: Chicago, IL |
Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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n8nagel wrote: | ...and the Harmony was using device 64.191 for most of the codes, not just 64. I changed the upgrade I was using to use 64.191. |
The learned signal decoder is causing this confusion, because 64 and 64.191 are the exact same code. Here's the story: the original format for NEC signals was device, device-comp, OBC, OBC-comp, but that only gives 256 possible device codes, which may have seemed like it was enough back in the 80s but it's nowhere near enough now, so they replaced the device-comp with a sub-device code, effectively giving 256*256 device codes. So, when the sub-device is equal to 255 minus the device code, it's not really a sub-device but is in fact just the device code complement. 64+191=255
n8nagel wrote: | For some reason the commands seemed to work better if I changed the second device from 64 with no sub device to 64.191. |
I think that's an optical illusion, or placebo effect.
n8nagel wrote: | HDMI Switch OFF - NEC1 254.1.31 |
That's another one that is really just 254 rather than 254.1, as 254+1=255
Just to be clear, it's not wrong to use 64.191 or 254.1, they just produce the exact same signals as 64 and 254. _________________ Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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mdavej Expert
Joined: 08 Oct 2003 Posts: 4501
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Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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The command that pops up the side bar is Dev 2.125 OBC 150 or a held (repeated) 2.125 159 (64 OBC 88). My TV doesn't have an "Input" toggle, so I don't know what that code is, but I'd love to have it if you can learn it.
I compared the above to 254.1 31, and they are kind of similar, but not so much that I would expect the TV to respond like it does. However, since the TV already responds to both device 2 and device 64 for the same commands, maybe it's pretty loose with its decoding. I think avoiding using those commands on your HDMI switch is the best workaround. |
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n8nagel
Joined: 03 Jun 2018 Posts: 185
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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:12 am Post subject: |
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Good morning and thanks for the reply.
You may be right about placebo effect. Sometimes the TV responds to the remote right away and sometimes it is very sluggish.
As to learning commands, I'm not sure what you want me to do. The command is invoked by the original remote for the HDMI switch, so it's not "splatter" from a malfunctioning Xsight (although that does it too)
I could go through and brute force all the codes for 2.125, 64, and 254 and see what happens. I did it before for the BDP in the living room and it took me about an hour for one device code. I'm thinking that quite possibly the TV responds to a code set based around device 254 and that's why it's acting like this? Unfortunately a good quality IR controllable HDMI switch with the capability of having its auto-switching defeated and with discrete power codes is rare to begin with; it took me a while to find this model when my old Psyclone started acting up. In fact I'm pretty sure I started a thread here a while back searching for this feature set and I was pretty happy when I found this model (the one upstairs, on a different system, has been working flawlessly for months) |
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The Robman Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Posts: 21237 Location: Chicago, IL |
Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:40 am Post subject: |
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You mentioned that various HDMI switch buttons are getting a reaction from the TV, is this regardless of which remote is sending the signal? In other words, when you press DISCRETE OFF or 5 on the original HDMI switch remote, does it still cause the TV to react, or is it just when they're sent from the JP1 remote?
n8nagel wrote: | I could go through and brute force all the codes for 2.125, 64, and 254 and see what happens. I did it before for the BDP in the living room and it took me about an hour for one device code. |
If it takes an hour for 1 device code, I have to think you're doing it wrong, as I can probably test a device code in 10 minutes or less. The way I do it is like this, I create a spreadsheet of all 256 possible OBCs, then I eliminate all the ones that are already documented as known functions, then if the device mode with the most buttons in the remote has, let's say, 40 buttons, I split the list into groups of 40, and if the remote has, let's say, 6 device buttons, I'll create 6 upgrades of 40 buttons each, so that would give 240 possible buttons. Then I create an RMIR file with those 6 upgrades added and assigned to device buttons, which I then load into the remote and start firing buttons at the screen. 240 buttons at approximately 1 second per button would take about 4 minutes to test. Now, when you're actually doing it, you might fly past a button a bit too quickly so when you notice that something changed on the screen, you have to go back 2 or 3 buttons to verify which one caused it, and then you need to press it a few more times to confirm what it's really doing, so that's why I'm suggesting that it really takes 10 minutes rather than 4. And if you don't have a DISCRETE ON command and you want to find one, you need to repeat the whole process with the device turned off. _________________ Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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mdavej Expert
Joined: 08 Oct 2003 Posts: 4501
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n8nagel
Joined: 03 Jun 2018 Posts: 185
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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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The Robman wrote: | You mentioned that various HDMI switch buttons are getting a reaction from the TV, is this regardless of which remote is sending the signal? In other words, when you press DISCRETE OFF or 5 on the original HDMI switch remote, does it still cause the TV to react, or is it just when they're sent from the JP1 remote? |
yes, that's correct. I discovered the "input" pop up that way, as I was using the discrete off command for the HDMI switch as part of the startup macro for one of my activities. I then grabbed the actual original remote for the HDMI switch which is when I discovered that the up and down arrows on that remote as well as the "5" button also did things to the TV. So, I can't use "power off" in any activity macros, and I have no way of accessing HDMI input 5 on the switch while using this TV. I have confirmed that both the original HDMI switch remote, and the Xsight when set to the HDMI switch device, cause the same behavior. |
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The Robman Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Posts: 21237 Location: Chicago, IL |
Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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Does the switch have an INPUT+ button? If so, instead of using HDMI-5, you could make a macro that selects HDMI-4 and then does INPUT+.
As for the DISCRETE OFF function, if you only use that when shutting things down, if you follow it with a discrete off for the TV, it shouldn't matter that it triggered the TV's input menu.
If I were in your position, in addition to trying all OBCs for the TV's device code, I would also be scanning it for all OBCs for the switch's device code, just so I'd know which ones cause a conflict and maybe in the process you could discover some secret codes, which is always fun. _________________ Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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n8nagel
Joined: 03 Jun 2018 Posts: 185
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Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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The Robman wrote: | Does the switch have an INPUT+ button? If so, instead of using HDMI-5, you could make a macro that selects HDMI-4 and then does INPUT+.
As for the DISCRETE OFF function, if you only use that when shutting things down, if you follow it with a discrete off for the TV, it shouldn't matter that it triggered the TV's input menu.
If I were in your position, in addition to trying all OBCs for the TV's device code, I would also be scanning it for all OBCs for the switch's device code, just so I'd know which ones cause a conflict and maybe in the process you could discover some secret codes, which is always fun. |
I agree with your last paragraph. I had the same thought you did above, however, both INPUT+ and INPUT- buttons also cause actions on the TV... this is why I'm getting frustrated.
I also can't figure out why the drawer of the Oppo opens every time I start the "Watch Roku" activity. If anyone has any ideas on that one I'm all ears. |
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The Robman Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Posts: 21237 Location: Chicago, IL |
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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n8nagel wrote: | I agree with your last paragraph. I had the same thought you did above, however, both INPUT+ and INPUT- buttons also cause actions on the TV... this is why I'm getting frustrated. |
"Frustrated"? I think you're being too polite, lol !!! I think this TV has you well and truly screwed mate! Best I can suggest is that you scan all OBCs for all possible device codes for both the TV and the switch in the long-shot hope that you find different OBCs for the switch inputs that don't do anything on the TV. I wouldn't hold out too much hope, but you don't know if you don't try. _________________ Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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mdavej Expert
Joined: 08 Oct 2003 Posts: 4501
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Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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Back when I had an HDMI switch it was entirely automatic. I never had to send any commands to it. It simply switched itself to the last source I turned on. My activity macros were quite simple.
Also have you considered not running everything through the Oppo? I thought only sources less than 1080 benefitted from its processing.
Lastly, have you attempted to use CEC to automate any input switching? |
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n8nagel
Joined: 03 Jun 2018 Posts: 185
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Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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The Robman wrote: |
"Frustrated"? I think you're being too polite, lol !!! I think this TV has you well and truly screwed mate! Best I can suggest is that you scan all OBCs for all possible device codes for both the TV and the switch in the long-shot hope that you find different OBCs for the switch inputs that don't do anything on the TV. I wouldn't hold out too much hope, but you don't know if you don't try. |
I think I will do that if nothing else because I'm a completist and like to document stuff...
mdavej wrote: | Back when I had an HDMI switch it was entirely automatic. I never had to send any commands to it. It simply switched itself to the last source I turned on. My activity macros were quite simple.
Also have you considered not running everything through the Oppo? I thought only sources less than 1080 benefitted from its processing.
Lastly, have you attempted to use CEC to automate any input switching? |
So the reason why I've *dis*abled automatic switching is that nothing I have plugged into that switch is IR controllable, therefore most of the stuff may be in an on state when I power up. Then I'd have to cycle through manually to watch a specific device.
Everything *has* to go through the Oppo because I don't have an AVR, I have an old quad receiver, the Oppo is acting as my DAC.
Yes, I have thought about picking up a cheap AVR and just ditching this setup, although in reality getting a different "non smart" TV would accomplish the same goal. |
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mdavej Expert
Joined: 08 Oct 2003 Posts: 4501
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Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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Do you really need all those streaming devices? I understand you're using your own Firestick rather than the apps on the smart TV because it's your roommate's TV. But don't Roku and Chromecast do the same thing as the Firestick?
Not being critical, just trying to reduce the complexity of your system. So here's what I would do in your situation:
- Disconnect the Chromecast and Roku, and connect the Firestick directly to the TV, then use optical out from TV to opt in to your Oppo.
- Connect PC directly to TV
Now you can remove the HDMI switch entirely and use the optical out from the TV for PC, Firestick and OTA |
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