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URC-7880 Bluetooth Connection to Windows 10 Not Working
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Ed



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 262
Location: Ft. Worth, TX

                    
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:17 pm    Post subject: URC-7880 Bluetooth Connection to Windows 10 Not Working Reply with quote

Hello,

I decided to buy a URC-7880 for my daughter and, for fun, see if I could get the Bluetooth interface working with my Windows 10 laptop. I've failed to do so. Here are the steps I've followed. Any insight or assistance would be appreciated.

First, I connected the URC-7880 to my Windows 10 computer using the Prolific interface and the "old" driver. As mentioned by others, forcing Windows 10 to install the old driver is an adventure, but eventually it does. (Of course, the next time Windows 10 updates itself, it just wipes it out again.)

I downloaded the "stock" image of the remote and saved it.

After having downloaded version 2 of the extender (4 RMIR files), I proceeded as follows:

Upload "a_in" to the URC-7880
Disconnect the remote from the interface
Press "1", get a brief flash of the "TV" LED
Press "Power", get two flashes of the "TV" LED
Upload "b_in" to the remote
Disconnect the remote from interface
Press "1", get a brief flash of the "TV" LED
Press "Power", get two flashes of the "TV" LED
Remove 1 battery. Wait 30 seconds
Replace battery, get confirming two flashes of "TV" LED to indicate reboot
Reload "stock" image to remote

I then tried to connect the remote to my laptop (1-year old Dell running Windows 10 Version 1909).

Opened RMIR
Selected Remote > Interface > JP2BT > Windows WCL
Selected Remote > Connect by Bluetooth
Got the "Remote chooser" popup. No remotes to choose from
Pressed "Activity" and "Devices" on remote until TV LED began flashing
Clicked "Search" on the Remote chooser popup
Remote was never found by RMIR, TV LED on remote eventually stopped flashing

I repeated the above steps to connect via Bluetooth several times with the same results.

I next went back and uninstalled the extender, proceeding as per the instructions and rebooting the remote after step b (the first step) of the uninstall. I then installed the extender again by repeating the whole process and got the same result.

I note that the instructions warn that the Windows 10 Bluetooth connection might not work, but before concluding that it's not working, I thought I'd check here to see if I'm doing something wrong, or if there could be some other problem.

I'm building this remote for my daughter, and I know I can go ahead and use the Prolific cable for that, but I was really interested in making Bluetooth work for me.

Thanks very much for any help.
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chuliu



Joined: 04 Dec 2010
Posts: 442
Location: Hong Kong

                    
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have any other cheap no brand bt dongle to test?
I have url-7980 and v2 extender installed.
It works for both my macos laptop running in bootcamp windows with the built in bt or a cheap no brand bt dongle as well.

I don't have urc-7880 but I don't see any obvious mistakes in your steps of installing the extender v2 reading the readme.txt that comes with the installation files.
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mathdon
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Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 4515
Location: Cambridge, UK

                    
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please try removing one battery from each side, instead of just one battery. I see that I wrote "one battery" in the installation instructions but I recall that I have sometimes found it necessary to remove two, one from each side, to ensure that there can be absolutely no power to the remote for a short time. Otherwise I can see nothing wrong with your installation procedure. Please post to let me know if this resolves the problem.

I assume that you have a current version of Windows 10. The Bluetooth support in early versions was insufficient for these remotes. I believed until recently that it was not possible to turn off automatic updating, so assumed everyone would have a reasonably up to date version. Then I came across a user with a really old Windows 10 who had found a way to prevent it updating, so perhaps it is something that I have to mention.
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Graham
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Ed



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 262
Location: Ft. Worth, TX

                    
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Graham and chuliu for the help.

Quote:
Do you have any other cheap no brand bt dongle to test?


No, I don't. I could get one but I wonder if I'm going to get a dongle, should I just go ahead and get the BLED112 dongle and try it. Any thoughts?

Quote:
Please try removing one battery from each side, instead of just one battery. I see that I wrote "one battery" in the installation instructions but I recall that I have sometimes found it necessary to remove two, one from each side, to ensure that there can be absolutely no power to the remote for a short time. Otherwise I can see nothing wrong with your installation procedure. Please post to let me know if this resolves the problem.


I removed one battery from each side and tried again. No joy. I noticed my phone was connecting via Bluetooth to my laptop so I disconnected it and tried again. Again, no joy.

I recall from my earlier efforts that at least once after removing a single battery and replacing it, I failed to get the two flashes. When this happened, I removed a battery again, then pressed a couple keys, then replaced the battery. Then I got the two flashes.

I next went through the uninstall and install procedures again, being very careful to ensure I was doing it correctly. I noticed that whenever I disconnected the cable from the remote after uploading a file, the TV LED would flash twice. I needed to wait for this before the remote would respond to a digit press. Sometimes it happened very quickly, sometimes it took up to 3-4 seconds to do so. I didn't notice this behavior earlier, but I must say I wasn't looking for it either.

Quote:
I assume that you have a current version of Windows 10.


Yes, I do. I have never paused updates. For the record, I'm running version 1909, build 18363.1139. Of course, Windows 10 updates occasionally (?) break things, so I guess there's no guarantee that there isn't something about Bluetooth that got hammered in the most recent update. I do manage to connect my phone via Bluetooth without difficulty.

Thanks again very much for the help. I'm really looking forward to getting this working.
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chuliu



Joined: 04 Dec 2010
Posts: 442
Location: Hong Kong

                    
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed wrote:
Thanks Graham and chuliu for the help.

Quote:
Do you have any other cheap no brand bt dongle to test?


No, I don't. I could get one but I wonder if I'm going to get a dongle, should I just go ahead and get the BLED112 dongle and try it. Any thoughts?


If you plan to buy a dongle, then it is better to get a bled112 instead of just a standard bluetooth dongle. After all, for os other than windows 10, one still needs a bled112 for urc-7880 or the like to work with bluetooth and rmir, IMHO.
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mathdon
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Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 4515
Location: Cambridge, UK

                    
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have dug out my URC7880 and tested it with RMIR 2.12.1 and my Windows 10, which is version 2004. Search found it, it connected and a download worked, so revisions of RMIR and of Windows 10 have not introduced any bugs that prevent Bluetooth from working. Search can be a little temperamental, though I think it is in fact the remote rather than RMIR that causes it. If Search doesn't work then before trying again, remove a battery on each side and then press a key before reinserting the batteries and trying again.

Personally, I press the Bluetooth button on the toolbar rather than using Remote > Connect by Bluetooth, but since you used this menu item I have tried it to make sure that works too, and it does. I also press Search on the Remote chooser before pressing Devices and Activity on the remote, but again the order doesn't matter. I am inclined to think that the extender is installing correctly and that it is Search that is not working. All I can suggest is what I said above, trying search several times and removing batteries in between each try. I don't know about multiple Bluetooth connections to Windows, so it is wise to make sure that your phone is not connected to it.

Quote:
I noticed that whenever I disconnected the cable from the remote after uploading a file, the TV LED would flash twice. I needed to wait for this before the remote would respond to a digit press. Sometimes it happened very quickly, sometimes it took up to 3-4 seconds to do so.

That is normal behaviour. The two flashes indicate that the reboot of the remote has completed, and for reasons unknown, it can take a variable time.

If you do get a dongle, then as chuliu says, get the BLED112. You can keep Extender 2, it works with the dongle as well as with Win10. You don't need to uninstall it and install Extender 1 instead.
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Graham
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Ed



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 262
Location: Ft. Worth, TX

                    
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I have dug out my URC7880 and tested it with RMIR 2.12.1 and my Windows 10, which is version 2004. Search found it, it connected and a download worked, so revisions of RMIR and of Windows 10 have not introduced any bugs that prevent Bluetooth from working. Search can be a little temperamental, though I think it is in fact the remote rather than RMIR that causes it. If Search doesn't work then before trying again, remove a battery on each side and then press a key before reinserting the batteries and trying again.

Personally, I press the Bluetooth button on the toolbar rather than using Remote > Connect by Bluetooth, but since you used this menu item I have tried it to make sure that works too, and it does. I also press Search on the Remote chooser before pressing Devices and Activity on the remote, but again the order doesn't matter. I am inclined to think that the extender is installing correctly and that it is Search that is not working. All I can suggest is what I said above, trying search several times and removing batteries in between each try. I don't know about multiple Bluetooth connections to Windows, so it is wise to make sure that your phone is not connected to it.


Thanks Graham. I've tried using the Bluetooth button in RMIR, then pull batteries, press a key, replace batteries, press search, press Activity and Devices 5 or 6 times with the same non-result. For completeness, I'm using RMIR v2.12.1 as well. I've also rebooted my laptop between tries with no change in results. In desperation, I tried to find my remote via Windows 10 native Bluetooth "Add a device". No joy.

I'm trying to understand what could be different between your test setup and mine. My computer is a Dell laptop, so I guess something about Dell hardware could be different from yours. You're using a newer version of Windows 10 than I am, so I suppose something could be different. I don't take updates until I'm forced to, so I'm still waiting to be forced to take version 2004.

I actually bought two of these remotes; one is still in the box. I guess I could try installing the extender on that one to see if something about the remote I'm currently using is wrong. With me, there's always the possibility that I goofed something up during my early tries at installing the extender.

I've ordered a BLED112 dongle from Digi-key, and I'll see if I can make that work when it comes in.

I'll post back if I get any additional results.
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mathdon
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Joined: 22 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed wrote:
I'm trying to understand what could be different between your test setup and mine. My computer is a Dell laptop, so I guess something about Dell hardware could be different from yours. You're using a newer version of Windows 10 than I am, so I suppose something could be different. I don't take updates until I'm forced to, so I'm still waiting to be forced to take version 2004.

I also don't update till forced, but v.2004 was forced on me a few weeks ago. The extender was developed on an earlier version which could well have been 1909 as I have had several version updates forced on me since then. My computer is an Acer Aspire 6, a cheap 15inch laptop, but I doubt if that is a significant difference. Extender 2 should work with any Bluetooth Low Energy device that is compliant with the Bluetooth specification. The difference between Extender 1 and Extender 2 is because the Bluetooth support in the remote is not fully compliant with the specification. The BLED112 dongle is forgiving and works with the remote, the Microsoft implementation requires strict complicance and does not work with it. Extender 2 fixes the defect in the remote to allow it work with Microsoft, but of course also with any other implementation, so even if Dell has added its own Bluetooth support, it should still work.

Quote:
In desperation, I tried to find my remote via Windows 10 native Bluetooth "Add a device". No joy.

Windows will not talk to the remote. The UEI implementation is a weird one that works without pairing with the partner device, Windows will only work with devices that it can pair with.

Does your remote work with the UEI phone app? That would at least check that the remote is sending out the signals that Search looks for.
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Graham
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Ed



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 262
Location: Ft. Worth, TX

                    
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Does your remote work with the UEI phone app? That would at least check that the remote is sending out the signals that Search looks for.


Yes, it does. I downloaded and installed the app on my Android phone. My first attempt at pairing failed, so I pressed "Activity" and "Devices" again and it paired successfully. I was able to navigate to the section of the app that adds new devices, then I quit the app.

After doing that, I tried to connect via RMIR and failed. I pulled two batteries, pushed some buttons, and tried again and again it failed.

So, I guess that means the remote is putting out the signals but there's something different about my computer that makes it impossible for RMIR to find the remote?

Thanks again for your help!
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mathdon
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Joined: 22 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we now have to wait till you have the BLED112. That will eliminate anything to do with Bluetooth in your computer, so it should give a clue as to what is going on.
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Graham
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Ed



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 262
Location: Ft. Worth, TX

                    
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Graham. The dongle should arrive tomorrow. I'll give it a try and post back my results.

In the meantime, I thought I'd ask about the java version I should be running. I seem to recall a discussion of that topic here awhile back.

When I tried to install RMIR on my laptop, the shortcuts weren't created because I did not have java installed. I installed it and the RMIR installed without any further complaints. I'm running java version 1.8.0_271.

I'm probably grasping at straws, but I'm wondering if a difference in java versions could account for Bluetooth functionality working on your computer but not mine.

Thanks very much for your help.
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mathdon
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Joined: 22 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, your Java version is fine. If it was not, RMIR would not be working. Let's see what tomorrow brings, with the dongle, before speculating further.
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Graham
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Ed



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 262
Location: Ft. Worth, TX

                    
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I received the BLED112 today. Bottom line: No joy.

I tried using the dongle on three different computers: 1) Windows 10 laptop I have been using to try to connect using the Windows 10 stack; 2) Windows 10 desktop with no native Bluetooth functionality; and 3) Windows 7 laptop. All three computers produced the same results. Here are the details of what I did with the Windows 10 laptop. Experience with the other two computers was exactly the same.

Install BLED112. Windows finds the dongle and installs the driver successfully
Check Device Manager>Ports (COM & LPT), Bluegiga Bluetooth Low Energy(COM3)
Start RMIR
Remote>Interface>JP2BT>Port Selection> Select COM3
Press Bluetooth button in RMIR
Select "Search"
Searching... message appears on bottom of main RMIR window. (This message never appeared when I was trying to connect using the Windows 10 stack)
Pull batteries and press buttons on remote
Replace batteries, get two flashes
Press "Devices" and "Activity" on remote until TV LED begins flashing. Nothing in "Select" area, Cursor focus shifts to "Register" button, eventually remote stops flashing
Close chooser window
Press Bluetooth button again
Press "Devices" and "Activity" again
Cursor focus shifts to "Register" with no remote showing in select area. Searching... still showing at bottom of RMIR main window
Repeated multiple times with same result.
Tried selecting "Register" after focus shift. Nothing happened. Tried selecting "Connect" and Chooser window closed.
Reboot computer. Same results.

Disconnect phone Bluetooth. Same results.

I suppose there are several avenues to pursue next, but I'll look to you, Graham, for a steer. Among the options would be to 1) uninstall extender 2 and install extender 1 to the current remote and 2) open the box on the new, "virgin" remote and install extender 1 on it.

Thanks again for your continued support.

Ed


Edited to add the following:

I decided to uninstall extender 2 and install extender one instead. I quickly realized I needed to establish a connection to install extender 1 and I could not. After uninstalling extender 2, I pressed devices and activity until flashing, then pressed search in RMIR, intending to use the BLED112. The remote wasn't found by RMIR and hence I could not establish a connection. After failing, I was able to establish a connection between the remote and the OFA app.

Next, I took the new remote out of the box (for the first time) and tried to connect it to RMIR. RMIR could not find it, but the OFA app could.

I'll stop fiddling around now.
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish you had not done what the edit describes. I can't even tell in what state your remote now is. If you have successfully uninstalled Extender 2 then you need your cable to connect to the remote. I need you to reinstall an extender, either version 1 or 2 will do for working with the dongle. Do that on your original remote if possible. I would prefer you to leave the second one in its pristine state, again if possible.

It is in fact a step forward that Bluetooth does not work with the dongle, as RMIR sees the dongle as a serial device, not a Bluetooth one, so it is far easier for me to create diagnostics for it. I would like you to attempt to connect to the remote (with extender installed) with the BLED112 dongle, then close RMIR and post the rmaster.err file in the Diagnosis Area of the file section for me to look at. That file is in your RMIR installation folder.

That error file will probably not tell me what is wrong, but it should be a guide to how far it gets. I will then try to add further diagnostics to RMIR, creating a test version for you, to find more detail about where it is going wrong. We will probably have to repeat this several times, with more diagnostics added each time, with the aim of finding, in the end, exactly what line in the code is failing. I am as interested as you in why it is failing, as this is the first case reported to me of failure of the Bluetooth connection. So please post that rmaster.err file for me as the first step. Then don't do any further experimentation of your own. I want to make sure that you have the same setup for each subsequent diagnostic step.
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Ed



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 262
Location: Ft. Worth, TX

                    
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I re-installed version 2 in the original remote and attempted to connect to it using the BLED112 dongle. The rmaster.err file is here: http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=26116

Apologies for any confusion on my edit. When I get to tinkering, I sometimes can't help myself. Embarassed

For clarity, "remote 1" is the "original" remote I have been working with. "Remote 2" is the other (pristine?) remote.

Regarding remote 2, I removed it from the box, installed 4 batteries, then pressed activity and devices while trying to connect to the BLED112 using RMIR. It failed to connect. Then I pressed activity and devices again and tried to connect it to the OFA app. It connected immediately. When it did, I immediately disconnected it from the OFA app and removed it's batteries. That's all I've done with remote 2.

Regarding remote 1, I installed and uninstalled version 2 of the extender several times as I've tried to get it working even before I posted here. Yesterday, I uninstalled it again and tried, without using a cable, to connect with the BLED112 dongle (without using a cable). It failed to connect, hence I was unable to even try to install version 1. I then immediately re-installed version 2. I confirmed that version 2 was installed just now prior to generating the rmaster.err file linked to above.

Again, apologies for any confusion. I appreciate your assistance very much and look forward to assisting you in diagnosing the problem I'm having. I won't do anything else with either of these remotes until I hear back from you.

Ed
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