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RMIR v2.12 available
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, I see, then yes, I think it's a good idea to display a message, from either RMIR or Setup.vbs, to alert the user that he's in a read-only folder and it ain't a good idea. Smile
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Barf
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uhhh, I did not not expect that reaction...

I have been installing RMIR in a read-only directory for years (using the --properties and --errors command line arguments), and it has worked without any problem. I have not been using the "summary" nor the XSight support though. So it already "almost" works from a read-only location.

I looked at the code, and the program uses its installation directory for creating temporary files only. This is for the summary and the Xsight support. There is nothing in the program that fundamentally requires the user to write in the installation directory. Rather, it "just happend" that the program was written so that the temporary files was created in the install dir (or a subdirectory thereof).

My proposed fix fixes the first of these two problems. It does not changed the behavior for the user with writeable install dir. Therefore, I believed that it should be uncontroversal. The argument for the rejection was "... no longer supports..." and "...installation instructions specifically say...". I.e., no substantial arguments at all; but "we have always done it that way". Crying or Very sad

During the last years, the write-ability in the installation directory unfortunately seems to have developed into a very emotional and prestige filled question. What I am suggesting is not a radical change, but the possibility to (optionally) install and run the program as most other programs. It will not change anything for the user installing in a writable directory.

I hope we can find a solution that is acceptable for everyone. I will be happy to assist if required and/or desired.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So how about this, if RMIR is in a writable directory, go ahead and write rmaster.err there, and if it's in a protected directory, it should create a folder called RMIR (if one doesn't already exist) under My Documents, and write it there?
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Rob
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about this:

1. I will make the change you request to the summary file.

2. I will remove the addition (not yet posted) to RMIR that gives a message if it is installed in a read-only folder, the message warning that some features do not work in this situation.

3. I will retain the additions to Setup.vbs and setup.sh (again not yet posted) that check if the folder is read-only and if so, tell the user to re-install it in a folder that is not read-only. These setup files are only run by users doing a "standard installation", which is to simply unzip it into some folder and then run the appropriate setup script.

4. I will continue to say, in announcements and other posts, that RMIR should be installed in a folder that is not read-only.

What I will not do is attempt to make changes to make RMIR fully functioning in a read-only folder. RMIR is not broken so it does not need fixing. If you or anyone else wants to post installation scripts that install it in a read-only folder, I have no objection. With the above proposals, users of such scripts will see no change as they will not get any message about read-only folders, all will continue exactly as at present. Some features will not work, but your experience is that these are so few that they should not cause any problem.
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Graham
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graham, is your reply directed at Bengt or myself?

I personally don't care whether RMIR allows for read-only folders or not, because I have it installed under My Documents.
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, Rob, it is aimed at Bengt. I don't think there is any disagreement between you and me on this issue. But while I am writing this, I might as well add a little explanation of my point of view. Bengt writes "the write-ability in the installation directory unfortunately seems to have developed into a very emotional and prestige filled question." No. What I want is for RMIR to be a self-contained program. To delete RMIR all you have to do is delete one folder (with, of course, its subfolders). A single operation. Programs that are "installed" get bits spread around and are far more difficult to uninstall. It isn't the write-ability that is important to me, it is the self-contained nature. If I want to find a file of the program, it is all in one place.

There are issues of write-ability too, though. If you want a "Windows-standard" installation then it goes into the Program Files folder. You need admin privileges to copy files there. So if you, Rob, create a new RDF for a user, they would need admin privileges to add it into the RDF subfolder. I could go on further, but I think that is enough, for now at any rate Rolling Eyes .
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have now posted RMIR v2.12.11 in the RMIR Development folder on SourceForge. This incorporates the changes I described above, for testing.
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Graham
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Barf
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

If you want a "Windows-standard" installation then it goes into the Program Files folder. You need admin privileges to copy files there. So if you, Rob, create a new RDF for a user, they would need admin privileges to add it into the RDF subfolder.


This is a false equivalence fallacy. From the wish/necessity to modify an installation, you conclude that it is OK to write temporary files in the installation directory. These are two completely different use cases. There is nothing wrong if a use wants either to tweak an installation (if he could write there the first time, he can write there a second time, possibly as Administrator/root). There is also nothing wrong if the user wants to install to a writable-location, for whatever reason. Creating temporary files by the program is a completely different use case. Requiring the installation directory to be writeable by writing temporary files there is a completely different issue, and can in no way be justified from the wish of a user to tweak the installation. False equivalence; "comparing apples to oranges"

As an aside: If you are developing RDF, it may be a good idea to keep the RDF directory (and possible the Images/Maps) in a separate, private location, and changing RDF path (Image path) accordinging. This is directly supported by the program. Otherwise, the files may be overwritten when installing a new version of the program.

Quote:

What I want is for RMIR to be a self-contained program. To delete RMIR all you have to do is delete one folder (with, of course, its subfolders). A single operation. Programs that are "installed" get bits spread around and are far more difficult to uninstall. It isn't the write-ability that is important to me, it is the self-contained nature. If I want to find a file of the program, it is all in one place.

All the installed files go into the (single) installation directory). No-one has suggested for example installing RDFs to ProgramData (although that is certainly a possibility).

Preferences: it is a bad idea to write these to the installation directory, since it makes it impossible for several users to share the same program (for example on a server). Most program's uninstaller leaves the user's preferences intact, since they take up very little space, and can be useful if the program is installed again.

Shortcuts on the desktop (*.desktop files on Linux), file associations remains when if the installation directory is deleted. (This would require an un-installation script.)

Temporary files should be removed by a well-behaved programs on exit. (Also if written in the installation directory.) Log files (rmaster.err) can be written in a suitable location, for example Documents (there is already an -errors option on the command line). (I agree that %HOME%\.AppData\Roaming\...) is a bit bizarre...)

So I do not consider this to be a valid argument for writing temporary files in the installation directory.

Version 2.12.11 appears to work as expected; only did a quick test.
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barf wrote:
Temporary files should be removed by a well-behaved programs on exit.

That's the bit I agree with. As far as I am concerned, RMIR does that, as I am not aware of any temporary files that it creates. Clearly you have a different view of "temporary" from me.

I think we have both made our views clear by now. I hope that we can draw this to a close by agreeing to disagree.
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Graham
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have now posted RMIR v2.12.14 in the RMIR Development folder on SourceForge. This fixes issues raised by Rob concerning buttons getting hidden when the window size is shrunk. See this thread for details.
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Graham
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rickety



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:10 pm    Post subject: RMIR v2.12 Help screen says 2.06? Reply with quote

*** Edited to remove description of problem when trying to update to new version of RemoteMaster ***

I experienced an odd behaviour with my previous version of RMIR so checked here and found the newer version despite the Help menu in my installed version saying 2.06 was the latest.

The issue I am trying to solve with the update is that when trying to edit a Device, the buttons tab scrolling gets "messed up". That issue continues with this version 2.12.

When looking at the buttons tab of a Device update, after scrolling down to the soft buttons area they begin to overlap one another making it impossible to edit them.
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Due to a change by SourceForge, which hosts the release versions, the update checker in v2.10 and earlier no longer works. It has been replaced by the checker in v2.11 and later, so be assured that you will be able to check for new releases again from now on.

Please post in the Diagnosis Area the .rmir setup file you are trying to edit and then post a link to it in this thread. I need to be able to reproduce the problem you are seeing in order to try to solve it. I suspect that the problem may lie in your setup rather than in RMIR, but in either case I will try to resolve it.
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Graham
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

His description sounds a bit like the issues I was having a while back, which I think I solved by switching my Look and Feel to Windows Classic.

I think a screenshot would help too.
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6557
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Rob
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob, I don't think it is the same problem. I have come across something similar to his problem myself and if I recall correctly, it was an issue with the setup. I always find it fiddly to post screenshots so avoid them if I can. I would rather have his .rmir file and no screenshot that wait for him to post both.
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Graham
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posting screenshots is so easy with IMGUR, this is all you need to do:
1. Hit "Print Screen" on your PC
2. Click "New Post" in the upper left corner
3. do CNTL+V to paste the image in
4. Right-Click and select "Open image in new tab"
5. Copy/paste the image URL
6. Paste it here in the forum in IMG tags

Really, it's that easy. I just timed myself doing it and it takes about 15 seconds. And while it's nice to have an account with IMGUR, it's not required.
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Rob
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