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Trying to get started with JP1 - just not getting it

 
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chileboy



Joined: 26 Aug 2020
Posts: 83
Location: NJ

                    
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:25 pm    Post subject: Trying to get started with JP1 - just not getting it Reply with quote

Hi all -

I just got a brand new AR Xsight Color. My impression was that I could use JP1 from the start to program it.

I have not installed the original software or programmed it at all, as I thought I did not need to (and , in fact, should not).

I connected the USB and in RM, got through the firmware upgrade with no issues.

But now what? For a start, how do I add my devices? I thought I could add them through the "Devices" tab, but it doesn't appear to be that easy.

For instance, my Pre-pro is an Anthem AVM 50. After around an hour of poking around, I found and downloaded the "Upgrade" file for the AVM 30 (which appears to be the closest to mine) and managed to get it to show up in my "Devices". But I got the feeling I am doing something wrong.

Aren't there simply image files for known devices,i.e., that have default button assignments, etc.?

I'm not lazy or new to this sort of thing, but I just want to make sure I'm not missing something obvious that's making my life unnecessarily difficult.

I have read though the "Just how easy is it", "Beginners" etc., more than once and I must be missing something. But I feel myself getting frustrated and think I need a nudge or two in the right direction.

Thanks very much in advance.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, here's an overview of what JP1 is, we're a bunch of enthusiasts who really like these remotes. The files in the file section were all created by us. To create them, we first learn the buttons from our OEM (original) remotes and then use the data to build new upgrades. We don't have the UEI master database at our disposal, so unlike the now defunct web site, we can't just have you enter your device names and magically give you codes for them.

So, you got the first step right, you look to see if we have files for any of your devices, and if we do, you can add them to your remote.

If you have any devices that we don't have files for, you'll have to learn the signals and use that data to make new upgrades (we can help with this if you don't know how).

Then, once you have all your devices loaded, you can do fun stuff like using keymoves to copy functions from one device mode to another, or create macros to get everything working together.

I'm not an expert with the Xsight remotes, so be sure to read the wiki page on those as they have a lot of special characteristics.

http://www.hifi-remote.com/wiki/index.php/Getting_started_with_Xsight_and_Nevo
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Rob
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chileboy



Joined: 26 Aug 2020
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Rob -

Thanks for the quick response. Maybe my post was a bit premature.

Since I wrote the first post, I realized I actually had imported the Anthem 30 upgrade properly. I figured out how to assign some of the commands to the soft keys and then uploaded it the remote. Disconnected it and viola, it works. Good feeling.

So I'm off-and-running.

I get what your saying about building the devices - since the Anthem 50 is more advanced than the 30, there's commands missing from my config, so my next task is to figure out the learning function and teach it what's missing.

I'll also try and contribute here by uploading any devices I build that seem to be missing from the files area.

Thanks again - I'm sure I'll be back!
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, the thing to keep in mind with the Remote Master program is that there's two sides to it, there's RMIR which is the program that communicates with your remote and stores the overall profile of the remote, then there's RM, which you use to edit and build upgrades. RMIR saves .rmir files, and RM saves .rmdu files. When you click on EDIT on an upgrade in RMIR, it will open a new instance of RM for you to edit it.

Don't be fooled if an upgrade that you download is a .txt file, those were created by an older tool but they will still open using RM.

So, with regards to the 30 vs. 50, you got it right, learn all the functions that are missing, including functions that you don't think you'll ever use, and add them to the .rmdu file, then save it as a new file for the Anthem 50 and load that back to our file section as your first contribution.

We use the words "Functions" and "Buttons" in upgrades, where "Functions" are basically the buttons from your OEM remote, and "Buttons" are the buttons on your JP1 remote, so once you've added all the necessary functions, your next step is to assign the ones that you need to physical buttons.
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chileboy



Joined: 26 Aug 2020
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Understood about the terminology I think.

You've touched on a couple of things that as a newcomer confused me.

I didn't understand (and maybe still don't) why the device definition files are called "Upgrades". That implies to me that I already have the device installed and configured on my remote I guess.

It also took me a bit to figure out that I have to bring the .rmdu into RM first, and then export it to a .girr and then import it into RMIR. Since (as you said) Editing an upgrade in RMIR opens RM in a new window anyway, why the extra step? Why can't I just Import the .rmdu directly into RMIR? Not a big deal now that I understand what to do, but I'm thinking there's a technical detail that I'm now curious about.

For whatever reason I didn't puzzle long over the .txt file thing - there was one I needed, and I just pulled it in without overthinking it (for once).

As of last night, I had all of my devices in my Xsight Smile. So now today it'll be learning missing functions, assigning the buttons and (hopefully) composing my activities and macros.

Thank you for your help and advice!
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gfb107
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can load an upgrade file directly into RMIR.

See http://www.hifi-remote.com/wiki/index.php/JP1_-_Just_How_Easy_Is_It%3F#How_Do_You_Add_an_Upgrade
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A universal remote typically comes with a limited set of setup codes installed from the factory, then what we do is "upgrade" the remote by adding more setup codes to it, hence the name.

Which instructions were you following that said anything about a .girr file?

To load an upgrade from the file section, just save it locally then from RMIR, go to the Devices tab, click New, then click Open and select the file, then configure it to suit your needs.

To add to an existing upgrade file, open it using RM, make your changes, then save it.

To capture buttons from an OEM remote, learn them using your JP1 remote, then download the JP1 remote memory using RMIR and look at the learned signals in the "Learned Signals" tab, in most cases this will show you the protocol, device code(s) and OBCs, which you can then use to build a new upgrade or add to an existing one. If all the learns are for the same device, in most cases you can use the "Convert to Device Upgrade" button to get it started.
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chileboy



Joined: 26 Aug 2020
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gfb107 wrote:
You can load an upgrade file directly into RMIR.

See http://www.hifi-remote.com/wiki/index.php/JP1_-_Just_How_Easy_Is_It%3F#How_Do_You_Add_an_Upgrade


Not sure how I missed that - I was clicking "Import" on the "Devices" tab.

Thank you!
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chileboy



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:

Which instructions were you following that said anything about a .girr file?


I was...confused. As I said to Greg, I was clicking "Import" on "Devices", which only allows .girr (and .ict)

The Robman wrote:

To capture buttons from an OEM remote, learn them using your JP1 remote, then download the JP1 remote memory using RMIR and look at the learned signals in the "Learned Signals" tab, in most cases this will show you the protocol, device code(s) and OBCs, which you can then use to build a new upgrade or add to an existing one. If all the learns are for the same device, in most cases you can use the "Convert to Device Upgrade" button to get it started.


I (mostly) figured this out. I thought I could learn somehow inside RMIR. When that didn't appear to be the case, I disconnected and learned directly on the Xsight remote - and, as you said, they do show up in the "Learned Signals".

Thank you (again)!
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, we don't have the ability to control the remote directly via the JP1 cable, we just read and write to it, so you have to do the learning the old fashioned way. To learn directly to your computer, you'd need an IR Widget.

The other question that we used to get asked a lot is whether you can make the remote send IR signals from the computer, and the answer to that is also no.
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chileboy



Joined: 26 Aug 2020
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:
Yeah, we don't have the ability to control the remote directly via the JP1 cable, we just read and write to it, so you have to do the learning the old fashioned way. To learn directly to your computer, you'd need an IR Widget.

That's fine, no big deal Smile
The Robman wrote:

The other question that we used to get asked a lot is whether you can make the remote send IR signals from the computer, and the answer to that is also no.

Funny, I think my old URC software can do that, but I never used it anyway!

Edit: Disregard below, I just went back and read your last post more closely which I think answers my question. My apologies! Embarassed

======
I have a question about the learned functions. I used my old remote to teach the missing Anthem functions to the Xsight. I assigned each to a soft key (since that's the only thing that made sense). When I then uploaded the remote back to JP1, I can see them on the Learned Signals tab, and if I go into the Anthem from the Devices tab, I can see the learned commands on the Buttons tab, but not under Functions, Layout, or Key Map. Why is that?

Also - I tried "Convert to Device Upgrade" on the Learned Signals, but when I then try to Append it to the Upgrade, it says it already exists.And it won't let me first Remove the Learned functions from the Device button list...
Embarassed
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chileboy wrote:
For a start, how do I add my devices? I thought I could add them through the "Devices" tab ... I just want to make sure I'm not missing something obvious that's making my life unnecessarily difficult.

I know this is a rather late reply, but I think you were missing something. If you download your XSight to RMIR, on the General tab there is a note that begins

Quote:
Note 1: All devices in this remote have a corresponding device upgrade. To add a new built-in device, use the Settings facility of the remote as this also creates the required upgrade.
Rob wrote
Quote:
A universal remote typically comes with a limited set of setup codes installed from the factory

These are the built-in devices that the note refers to. You use the Settings facility on the remote as follows to access them.

1. Scroll to the end of the Home page and select the Settings button you find there.
2. Then select Device Setup, followed by Add Device. This gives a list of device types, such as TV and Satellite, and also more exotic ones such as Amp-Receiver.
3. After selecting the type, you get a list of brands. Select your brand.
4. The next step tests the built-in codes for your brand and device type by sending the Power signal for each built-in code in turn. You turn your device on and test each code in turn until the test signal turns the device off. if it does, then you can test other buttons to make sure this is a suitable code for your device. If it is, you press "Works!" and that device is set up.

This process also creates a device upgrade for the code you have selected. So if you then download the remote to RMIR, you can use the Devices tab of RMIR to view, and edit if desired, the functions and button assignments of that setup.

I should perhaps add that the XSight is a multi-region device. Each region, such as Europe or North America, has built-in setup codes that are appropriate for the equipment generally available in that region. You chose a region when you first set up the XSight. I hope you were careful to choose the region you are in. If not, you will find that the built-in codes probably do not work for your equipment. The region choice only affects the available built-in codes, though. Any device upgrades loaded with RMIR will work whatever the choice of region.
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chileboy



Joined: 26 Aug 2020
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Graham -

Yes, I did figure out what I was doing... Wink But thank you!

Going to embark on creating an upgrade for the Anthem AVM 50 (my pre/pro). I started with the .rmdu for the AVM 30, loaded it into my Xsight and then added the functions that were missing that I personally use. Going to make an agnostic and more complete version to upload here.

Anyway, I am loving RMIR.
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