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Yamaha 7810 audio receiver - need RMDU file
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stususs



Joined: 27 Jun 2004
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:47 pm    Post subject: Yamaha 7810 audio receiver - need RMDU file Reply with quote

Although I am not technically a beginner, every few years, when I change one of my components, I feel as if I am learning this process all over again.

My new component is a Yamaha 7810 audio receiver, which I understand is the same as the model V781. When I learn keys from the Yamaha remote, the learned keys show up as Device 122 and Sub device 133. The protocol for the learned keys is usually NEC1-f16 or, in one case, just NEC1. The OBCs of the learned keys are 4 and 5 digits long, not the 2 or 3 digit OBC codes I have used in the past.

I am unable to find an RMDU file for this component in the files section.

Edit: My remote is a Nevo C2.

Please teach me, again, how I am supposed to proceed.

Thank you.
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 19719
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately, you've picked a hard one to be a beginner with as Yamaha likes to mix things up with their IR codes. If you just want the RMDU, post the RMIR files that contain all the learns, along with descriptions of what the buttons are if they're not learned to the proper buttons and I'll make the RMDU for you.

But if you want to do it yourself, in RM select the NEC1-f16 official protocol as that one lets you enter 2 device codes and 2 OBCs for each button. I'm used to the OBCs being presented as 2 OBCs, rather than a 4 or 5 digit OBC, but I'm sure I can figure it out if I see what you're seeing.
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stususs



Joined: 27 Jun 2004
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your offer of assistance. I hope this is what you have asked of me.

I have taken a somewhat helpful, existing upgrade (Power, mute and cursor keys work). I have added the 10 most important keys for me by having the C2 learn them from the component's remote. I then downloaded that file from the C2.

Most of the function keys were inaccurately labeled. That is shown in the file C2RobmanUnedited
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=25751

I then made my corrections and uploaded that file as C2RobmanCorrected
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=25752

Please let me know if you need anything else from me.
Thank you, again.
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mathdon
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Joined: 22 Jul 2008
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Location: Cambridge, UK

PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob, why not use this as a test for the new Comvert to Device Upgrade facility in RMIR. I have recently posted a fix for rsbrux for the Yamaha protocol. You contributed to that thread, so you might have seen that you need to download rmProtocols.xml and copy it to your RMIR v2.09 installation folder. With that done, the learned to upgrade conversion should work on his learned signals. It handles automatically the conversion of 5-digit OBCs to the two separate ones needed by the upgrade. And stususs might like to try this as well.
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Graham
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was a good idea Graham and it worked.

Stususs, if you download the file that Graham linked to and store it in your RM folder (and re-start RMIR for it to take effect), you can then highlight all of the learned signals and click on the "Convert to Device Upgrade" button and it will create an upgrade using the NEC1-f16 executor.

Now, if you want to add functions to the new upgrade from the existing Yamaha upgrade, you can. In that upgrade, the device and sub codes are shown as one number, where the device code is the number before the decimal point and the sub code is the number after (ie, 122.133 means device=122, sub=133). Also, in that upgrade they don't show the OBC2 codes because they're always the complement of the OBC itself, so to calculate OBC2 just subtract the OBC from 255.

I have done all of that in the following file:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=25753

Now, you mentioned something about only capturing the buttons that were important to you. Would you be willing to "give back" to this forum by creating a complete upgrade for your 7810? By "complete", I mean one that includes EVERY button for the device, including ones that you'll never use, because they may be important to someone else.

The quickest way to do this would be to learn every working button using the C2, then use the Upgrade button to create the upgrade. To create an RMDU file, select the upgrade from the Devices tab and click Edit Device, which brings up an RM-like screen, and from there click "Save As" to save it as an RMDU file. In the Functions tab, please make sure that the name column has the actual name of the Yamaha function/button, rather than the C2 remote button.
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stususs



Joined: 27 Jun 2004
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to be a "good citizen" of this board and to create an upgrade to share with others.

This is going to take forever. I may have many questions to ask. Please do not lose patience with me.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you think it will take you a long time, could you just do the learning part and I'll do the rest?
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stususs



Joined: 27 Jun 2004
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am doing my best to be helpful.

Here are the problems.

I created a new device on my C2. I tried to have that new device learn keys from the Yamaha remote. The overwhelming majority of the keys on the Yamaha remote do not have corresponding keys on the C2. So I used the number keys on the Nevo as the place to store the learned signals from the Yamaha remote.

When I downloaded from the remote to your software, I received this message:

<<Task error: Error downloading from remote. This may well be the result of a bug in the RMIR software. To help us, please do a raw download as follows: Close RMIR, re-open it and click on “Raw download” on the Remote menu. Click the download button on the window that then opens. When the download finishes, click Save. Accept the default filename that is offered. Then post the resulting file in the JP1 Software forum for the experts to examine.>>

1. What is the cause of that task error message?
2. Should I be creating a new device on my C2, then having the keys on the new device learning the keys from the Yamaha?
3. After the keys have been assigned to functions learned from the Yamaha, to which RMIR file do I download the keys I have learned? Am I creating a new RMIR file to be the recipient of the download from the C2?

Thank you for your patience and assistance.
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stususs wrote:
1. What is the cause of that task error message?

Unless you do what the message asks, which is to post a raw download for us to look at, we cannot tell what is the cause. If you do that, I will investigate, but it won't be till next week as I am away for a few days now.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do what Graham says regarding the error message.

As for the rest of your questions, the short answer is, none of it matters. Keep in mind that the only reason you're learning the buttons is so we can capture the codes. We will then use those codes to build an upgrade, at which point you can delete all the learns and just use the upgrade.

I totally get it that Yamaha uses a lot of unique button names, most of which are not replicated on a universal remote, and that will be a problem for anyone using the upgrade that I create, as they'll have to decide which buttons to use and where to place them. For the case in hand, you just need to be able to remember where you learned each button so you can tell me. Perhaps one method would be to write down all the Yamaha button names in a spreadsheet, then write down all the C2 button names (which you can copy-paste from RMIR) and put them in the column next to the Yamaha button names. Obviously, there aren't enough C2 buttons to capture all of them, so you'll need multiple devices. I don't know how much learning memory the C2 has, so in the event that it doesn't have enough to capture all of the buttons at once, then you make several passes, cleaning out the memory after you've saved an RMIR file.
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mdavej
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can learn to the 30 soft keys as well. No reason you shouldn’t be able to learn about 70 per device. Nevo has plenty of memory for several hundred learns.

EDIT: My key counts were off. Fixed now.
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stususs



Joined: 27 Jun 2004
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thank all of you for your courteous advice and assistance.

I have started the process of having the C2 learn all 65 keys on my Yamaha remote. Except, there may be 130 keys. The Yamaha remote has a switch which toggles between "Main" and "Zone 2" for use in a second location. Am I supposed to have the C2 learn 65 keys in Main mode than the same 65 keys in Zone 2 mode?

And, assuming I make no key entry errors, the process for each key is as follows:
1. Select: Learn a function

2. "For which device?" Scroll to device. Select device.

3. Press the key to be used for the new function.
3A. If a regular key is selected, "This key is already controlling something else. Do you want to overwrite it with this new function?" Select Yes. OR
3B(1). If a soft key on the C2 is to be selected, Select "On-screen keys"
3B(2). Select existing soft key or "New Key."

4. Place the Yamaha remote behind the C2 and press the key on the Yamaha remote that is to be learned.

5. If learning was successful, repeat the process for 65 keys (or 130 keys).

6. On each occasion, make a notation on a separately created spreadsheet as to which function on the Yamaha has been learned by which key on the C2.

7. Periodically download the changes from the remote so that all previous work is not lost.


I promised the helpers on this board that I would do all this as a gesture of appreciation for your help to me. If necessary, I will keep my promise to you.

However, there may be an alternative. The plastic coating on my Yamaha remote has started to blister and peel. Although I purchased a refurbished Yamaha, I am still within the warranty period and Yamaha has promised to send me a replacement remote, model RAV537, version: ZP60120.

If I receive a replacement remote, I am willing to donate the blistering, peeling, but otherwise operative remote to this board for you to analyze and dissect as you wish.

Which do you prefer?
1. An RMIR file with 65 learned buttons in Main mode.
2. An RMIR file with 130 learned buttons in Main and in Zone 2 mode.
3. The original remote, mailed to the person you designate.

Thank you, all, again.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recently created a spreadsheet which contains the Yamaha IR codes for RX-V685, RX-A780 - RX-A3080 and CX-A5200 receivers. You might want to take a look at this to see if it matches your receiver.

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=25745
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mdavej
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No need to learn any Zone 2 as we already know what to change to create those from the Main commands.

Rob's list probably already has 95% of the commands you're trying to learn.
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stususs



Joined: 27 Jun 2004
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can confirm that the codes in Rob's spreadsheet work in the upgrade Rob previously created for me and those codes properly control my Yamaha TSR 7810/RX V-781 receiver.

Do you need anything more from me?
When I receive the replacement remote from Yamaha, do you want me to donate my spare remote to this forum?

Thank you for your patience with my questions and thank you for your helpful advice.
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