JP1 Remotes

[n8nagel]

Good morning all... Picked up this little gem at the thrift store yesterday, now I actually have a working CD player with a TDA1541A DAC! It sounds great too. BUT... obviously I did not get the original remote with it. I mean, it's just a CD player, I don't really NEED the remote, but my OCD wants to figure this out especially since I can't seem to get anywhere with it. I'm also struggling to figure out where to start with this one.

1. Device: Magnavox CDB 582
2. Type of device: CD Player
3. Year: 1988?
4. JP1/UEI Remote model: ARRX15G Xsight 15 (Xsight Color)
5. Do you have a JP1 cable? N/A
6. Still have original remote? No
7. Checked the file section? Yes
8. Checked Pronto file section (at R/C)? Yes (see below)
9. Partially working setup code? N/A
10. Learning remote question? N/A
11. Have you tried the JP1 Lookup Tool? Yes
12. If you have a OARUSB04G, URC-6440 (or similar) remote, have you tried simpleset.com? N/A

So, I started by looking at Philips CDPs in the file section, knocked together an upgrade based on a couple of those, didn't work. Those were RC-5, Device 26, <64. Then I went to Remote Central and downloaded a Pronto Classic file that included codes for a Philips CD880 which is about the same era. If I'm reading this right, this is RC-5, Device 20, <64. This doesn't work either, but the crazy thing is the unit seems to recognize only the codes for Index Next and Index Previous. (which is cool because there aren't buttons for that on the faceplate. I will have to remember this because the remote seems to be the only way to access these... DESPITE THERE NOT BEING THOSE BUTTONS ON THE ORIGINAL REMOTE!) However, the things like Play, Stop, Pause, Eject etc. don't work (but a lot the OBCs seem consistent with the OBCs for the Device 26 files I found in the file section)

Any pointers? I'm completely lost here. Or should I just keep looking on RC at all the Magnavox and Philips files until I find a device number that works with all the codes?

Edit: I just looked at a Magnavox CDB 586 and it is also device 20 and appears consistent with the CD880.

Edit2: I forgot to mention, I tried to get a program for this device for my Harmony and Logitech says that the device doesn't have an IR receiver, which is obviously not the case.

Edit3: Original remote is either part no. 4822 218 20782 or 4822 218 10164 (both numbers appear in the Philips CD582 service manual) and I can't find an original one on eBay either.

Edit4: it appears that there are RCA jacks marked "RC5 In/Out" on the back of this unit which according to the manual are for hard wired remote control. Could I just make up a 3.5mm TS to RCA cable and use this with my Luxman TP-117 based system? If so, I assume shield goes to the outside of the RCA?

Edit5: I done cheated. Found the original remote on Mercari and dropped the $25 to get it to me. I'm guessing that I will find lots of hidden codes however which will be cool.

[davecs]

I don't know if this is any help, but I have a device with Protocol RC-5 Device 21. It's a combined amp/tuner/cd player by Cambridge Audio. Obviously there are a few transport controls, and I wonder whether Cambridge decided to use a Philips protocol because the CD player uses Philips transport codes and then they built the other controls around that. You never know.

You might want to try the OBCs for transport controls from this file.

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=25050
_________________
URC7560/URC7562, URC8910, URC7980, URC6440/OARUSB04G and URC3661

[n8nagel]

Thanks for the idea, but device 21 doesn't seem to work either. The only things that I've got a positive response so far are Device 20, OBC 34 and 35 which appear to be index commands. I guess I'll just have to wait a week or so for my original remote to show up.

[n8nagel]

Amazingly, my new remote showed up today, and I also figured out where I screwed this up. I'd been using the remote to learn my previous recent acquisition, a NEC S-VHS deck that I found at Goodwill and repaired. Apparently I had the file for this remote saved with the learns still in it (I think what I did was I learned to the remote in my bedroom, then read all the codes and made an RMDU file and finished it with the remote from the living room, where the VCR is now.) I deleted the "My VCR" device and then put in the device upgrade for the Maggie CDP. The reason that nothing worked was that the learns for the NEC were overriding the buttons in the RMDU file because I hadn't cleared them out of the file. D'OH! I only figured this out when I went to learn the new remote and then flipped over the the learned signals tab and saw all the NEC codes in there. So, I deleted all those learns out and it turns out that this is in fact Device 20. Got it mostly working with lots of cool features that aren't on the original remote (it looks like every button on the front is available over IR, *plus* index next and previous, and one button that does something weird that I haven't figured out.) Between the learns, the files I decoded from Remote Central, and the codes on the RC5 Wiki page, I should have this figured out and uploaded shortly.

So don't be like me, if you have one remote that you use for learning consistently, clear out the learns before starting a new device, because they'll mess you up! The only reason that I think the Index Prev and Index Next worked is because I assigned them to Left and Right and I didn't use those buttons at all for the VCR. I guess I should be happy that this lesson only cost me $25 though and now I do have the cool factor of having the original remote for the unit! (of course, my $15 CDP is now $40, but again, lessons...)

[n8nagel]

Here ya go. Now I gotta convert it to Pronto and send to Logitech so they can ignore me :/

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=26742

[The Robman]

Well done. So, judging from your upgrade, are there really only 7 buttons on the original remote? Even though the device supports so many more functions?

I just took your new file and combined it with several other CD upgrades that also use RC5 dev 20 to create a master file. This might give you a few other OBCs to try.

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=26743
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!

[n8nagel]

Hi Robman,

What you did makes total sense. I didn't look at those others because they weren't branded Philips or Magnavox and I wasn't aware that they used RC5 code but if they ARE using RC5 codes they should all be consistent. I used this Wikipedia page as well to get started once I figured out where I'd messed up.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RC-5

I did check all the OBCs between 0 and 63 and the only ones that worked on my unit were the ones that I left in the upgrade. I will probably go back and check the high ones although I don't know what useful feature I would find that I haven't already, unless the display dimmer code works. This is one of those units where the red "receive" light on the display only comes on when the unit recognizes the code sent which makes it really easy to find which codes actually do something and which don't.

Yes, the original remote is very limited, it only has Stop, Pause, Play, Prev, Next, Repeat, and Shuffle buttons (I was trying to find a picture to link to, but I can't). However there are OBCs that work that aren't even on the faceplate of the unit! Numbers 0-9, Index Prev, Index Next, and Scan are only available by using my Xsight (and all buttons that are on the faceplate have OBCs that work)

I thought about doing an upgrade for the Philips CD880 so we'd have all those OBCs documented as I had all the info in a spreadsheet but the thing was some of the button labels had bad characters in them (they came out of a Pronto .ccf file that I downloaded) and I have no way of testing them so I just left that alone.

I guess the big question you may be asking is why am I doing this? Well, believe it or not there are people today who still think that the old R-2R ladder DACs provide better, more natural sound than modern delta-sigma DACs, and specifically hold the old Philips TDA1541A in high regard. So while the player I'm messing with at a glance appears to be a cheap black plasticky box (and picking it up does nothing to change that impression) Philips actually co-developed the CD format with Sony and knew what they were doing, and the TDA1541 and 1541A were the first true 16 bit DAC chips that they released making them historically significant as well as attractive to audio nerds.

The CDB 582 is also tied for the oldest piece of electronics I have that actually uses an IR remote, along with my NEC DS8000U S-VHS deck which was coincidentally the last piece of 80s electronics that I acquired and put back in service. (now THAT is a remote! that thing is crazy, and there's no way to duplicate its programming functions with an Xsight, but at least it can be used for casual use.) Even wilder, I acquired both of them while stopping in thrift stores on my way home from my friendly local electronics tech's place - the NEC I got after dropping off a Q8 deck to be repaired, and the Magnavox I got while coming home from picking that same deck up! I have a couple CD players that are older, but they neither have IR sensors nor work reliably :/ And of course, if I'm going to keep something it has to be able to be used, so I had to verify remote function.

And of course I'm enough of a nerd that let's say I set up a vintage Dynaco or H.H. Scott or something system and want to add a CD player, I think it's cool to have a really old one, like someone would have bought back in the day when CDs were still new and exciting...

[The Robman]

[n8nagel]

[n8nagel]

Just as a follow up, I did check the OBCs from 64 to 127 and the player did not recognize any of them.

I also have a CDB 482 (with a broken transport) on the shelf and also a CDB 560 that I haven't really troubleshot yet so I might have more info at some vague future date.

Edit: what the heck? I just pulled the 560 off the shelf and while it was bitchy before it's now working splendidly.

[The Robman]

What did you have to do to fix it? Now that CDB 482 is starting to feel neglected, so come on, you know you want to fix it.
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!

[n8nagel]

I seriously plugged the s**t in and it just worked. I don't even remember why I tagged it as NFG now. Currently listening to the Pixies, although the disc stuck in it had the first track as a passable recording of Ravel's Bolero, so that's a bonus.

The little green light illuminating the spinning disc may be enough to make this one a keeper. It's older than the first CD player I bought as a broke HS student, but is still working unlike most of its contemporaries that I've tried...

Edit: it's messing up towards the end of a CD. I'm hoping this is lubrication related - I'm going to keep playing long CDs and forcing it to play the last track to see if it is good or no.

[n8nagel]

Added support for CDB 560 to file. Added a "Display" button as well as OBCs 51 and 63 which I'm not sure what they do. 63 responds just like any other working button but doesn't seem to do anything. 51 lights the remote light on the faceplate solid, but it goes out after pressing any other button. I just added comments to the file because the 560 and 582 use substantially the same codes so didn't want to make another redundant upgrade, plus for my uses a generic "Old Maggie CD Player" upgrade is more useful because I may swap them back and forth for testing stuff.

I only tested OBCs up to 70-something on the 560 as the 582 did not use any over 63 and I figure that the 560 being older won't either. I only went as high as I did as that was the highest number that fit on the soft keys in my second iteration of the test file.

Edit: the CDB 560 is currently hooked up and playing in my bedroom right now. I have noticed that I have to be careful to short press e.g. track next, fast forward, index forward or the unit responds like I've double or triple pressed the remote button. I didn't notice this on the CDB 582. Is there a different protocol I can use? Or a parameter I can set to require a longer press before a code repeats?

I just tried the original remote for the CDB 582 on the 560 and it works similarly but it requires a deliberate long press, whereas using my upgrade on the Xsight, it's easy to skip two or three tracks forward when you only meant to skip one. (the only buttons like this on the original CDB 582 remote are track next and track prev AKA SkipFwd and SkipBack in RM parlance)

I'm finding it harder to find the original remote (or more correctly, even what the part number is for it, so I can even start looking for it, although I did message a seller of one with supposedly the original remote on eBay and asked him to look as a favor) for the 560 so if I choose to keep that unit (and it is super 80s cool, I haven't developed a preference sound wise yet) so getting the Xsight working with it 100% would be real nice. The 560 I believe uses the older TDA1541 DAC chip while the 582 uses the TDA1541A. The 482 should use the TDA1543 which is supposedly less desirable which is why that one's back burnered. I haven't checked any of them yet however (even though I have the 482 partially apart I guess the DAC chip must be underneath the transport)

[The Robman]

[n8nagel]