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RMIR v2.07 build 2 with a URC-7880 and BLED112
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:
mathdon wrote:
Edit: Receiver setup code 4285 supports Sony20 subdevice 104. For its EFC5 codes for Sony20 the Protocol Parameter values you would need to enter are 8, 40, 104, 0. I don't know if this would be any help.

That gives EFC5 19144, with setup code 4285

I make EFC5 be 23240. I think 19144 has OBC=0 and he wants OBC=64. He should then be able to use a key move with Device Type =Audio, Setup code = 4285, EFC5 = 23240 to put this on any key, while leaving his AUD device button with setup code 2475. I have just tried this on my URC-7880, though, and found a snag that needed a workaround. I had to change the AUD device button to setup code 4285 before I could create the key move. But once the key move was created, I could then change the AUD device back to 2475 and the key move remained at 4285. I've verified the signal with IRScope and it is indeed Sony20, Device=16, Subdevice=104, OBC=64 so the key move works correctly.

This indicates to me that there is a bug in RMIR in the creation of key moves, as the workaround should not be necessary. I will look into this before issuing RMIR v2.08 build 1, which is otherwise imminent.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, my bad, I was so careful to enter all the sub-device codes correctly that I forgot to enter the OBC.
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snidely



Joined: 03 Jun 2019
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes - using setup 4285 for the key move then switching back to 2475 works great.

Are there still only 256 possible functions for each setup code, or did it jump way up using EFC5s?
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

snidely wrote:
Are there still only 256 possible functions for each setup code, or did it jump way up using EFC5s?

A simple question, but the answer is not so simple. What determines the number of possible functions is the executor used by the setup code. In your case the executor is Sony Combo (12/15/20). You select this with the "Protocol" drop-down on the Setup tab of the Device Upgrade Editor but "Protocol" here is actually a misnomer, it should really be called "Executor". You select the actual protocol, one of Sony12, Sony15 or Sony20, in the Protocol column on the Functions tab. The protocol is the specification of how the Device, Subdevice (if any) and OBC are encoded into an IR signal. The executor is the software routine that generates this IR signal, but it does so from a hex value.

The relationship between the hex value and the Device, Subdevice and OBC values is something specific to that executor. This is why different executors can have different hex values for the same signal. In RMIR, this relationship for each supported executor is specified in the protocols.ini file and is used to create the values in the Hex column of the Functions tab. It is the hex value that is stored in the remote and is read by the executor. The EFC is an encryption of the hex value as a decimal number. The original 3-digit EFC is modulo 256 and supports the 256 possible values of a 1-byte hex value. The newer 5-digit EFC5 supports 256 1-byte and 65536 2-byte hex values, determining both the length and value of the hex.

So to answer your question. EFC5 values can support up to 65536 signals for a single setup code, but not all of the EFC5 values may be valid for that setup code. These signals may not all be for the same protocol, and not all signals for an included protocol may be supported. Your case illustrates both these limitations. The Sony Combo (12/15/20) of the 2475 setup code supports three distinct Sony protocols but only four of the possible 256 subdevice values for the Sony20 protocol and those four are determined by the setup code. Generally speaking, "function code" is taken to mean the OBC value as for many executors the device and subdevice values are determined completely by the setup code. In this sense, each of the three Sony protocols supports only 128 functions (their OBC maximum value is 127) yet the 2475 setup code supports over 40000 signals once the allowed ranges of protocol, device and subdevice codes are taken into account.

I hope this has helped but fear it may have only added confusion. And even this is a simplified account of what is a very complicated issue.
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mathdon wrote:
This indicates to me that there is a bug in RMIR in the creation of key moves, as the workaround should not be necessary. I will look into this before issuing RMIR v2.08 build 1, which is otherwise imminent.

I've found and fixed this bug for RMIR v2.08. The Key Move dialog in RMIR was not accepting direct entry of setup codes greater than 2047. You could only enter a greater value by selecting a device button, which entered its current setup code. This was a hang-over from the time when UEI firmware only allowed 11 bits for setup codes. It went up to 12 bits when two-byte PIDs came in, and to 16 bits in recent remotes with data segments. I thought I had previously caught all places where RMIR tested setup codes against the upper limit, but I must have missed this one.
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Graham
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snidely



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the detailed explanation. It's starting to make more sense now.
I'll just keep filling up the upgrade editor for my Sony Amp.
I'm looking forward to see the changes in RMIR v2.08

So if the OBCs only go from 0 to 127, and I have 3 Sony20 and 2 Sony15 protocols, that would equal 640 EFCs to try. I haven't found any Sony12s.

Am I looking at this correctly?
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are you trying to achieve? You already have the means to decode all the signals from the OEM Sony remote control, to calculate their EFC5 values and to program your URC-7880 to send those signals. It seems, in fact, from what you have written that you have already done this for all the OEM buttons. Are there functions that you think the receiver supports but which cannot be sent from its Sony remote? If so, post a message about them as I suspect there is a master list of all Sony signals somewhere in our file section. That is not a topic that I am knowledgeable about but I am sure other experts can help. If you have something else in mind, please explain it. Trial and error, which you seem to be suggesting, is both time-consuming and unwise. You could hit a reset function with no "undo", or something else unexpected, that really messes up your equipment.
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Graham
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snidely



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mentioned in an earlier post that I tried all 256 combinations for all my other equipment. My goal was to find interesting functions not on the original remote, and since I am retired now, I have time to spend looking for them. I found lots of debug menus on my LG monitor, for example.

Anyway, you have given me the tools I need, and I thank you. RMIR is an amazing program.
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@snidely

I sent you a PM (private message) on Sunday which you have not yet picked up. As you are new to this website you may not know about PMs. You can open your messages with the link in the menu at the head of each forum thread. It is the middle link in the three lines of links you will see there. I hope my message will be of interest to you.
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Graham
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snidely



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mathdon wrote:
@snidely

I sent you a PM (private message) on Sunday which you have not yet picked up. As you are new to this website you may not know about PMs. You can open your messages with the link in the menu at the head of each forum thread. It is the middle link in the three lines of links you will see there. I hope my message will be of interest to you.


Thanks--got it
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