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Future of Java and Remote Master

 
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pelago



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:52 am    Post subject: Future of Java and Remote Master Reply with quote

With regards to Remote Master, which requires Java SE to run, I notice that when installing Java SE 8 update 191 on Windows, it points me at page https://www.java.com/en/download/release_notice.jsp noting that Java SE may only be being updated for consumers until end of 2020. Businesses can licence Java for use after then, but that requires payment.

It's a while away yet, but any early ideas or plans on what to do about this yet? Maybe transition to a different Java-compatible runtime, assuming there is one?
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Barf
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Joined: 24 Oct 2008
Posts: 1138

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way I interpret that message is that support for Java 8 (and, to different degrees, earlier versions) will be terminated in the future. This is no more surprising than Microsoft dumps support for windows XP, earlier for mortals, later for those with big $$$.

The long term "solution" is of course to migrate to Java 10 (or later). RM already "almost" (seach!) supports Java 10.

If I am wrong, please correct me.

IrScrutinizer alread runs with Java 8 and Java 10.
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pelago



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, that's much more straightforward than I realised. I didn't realise this was just talking about v8.
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rsbrux



Joined: 25 Dec 2015
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:05 am    Post subject: The time has come (the walrus said) Reply with quote

I now have what is ostensibly the last free version of Java SE 8 (1.8.0_231).
According to both Oracle and Wikipedia, the current version of Java SE is 13.
The readme.html included in the installation package still says that Java 7 or later is required, whereas the README.txt for 2.09 build 6 on SourceForge says that Java 8 is required. The posts above suggest that Java versions later than 10 may not yet be supported.
I was unable to find an authoritative source of "installation requirements" for RM. If there is one, it would be nice to make it more obvious. If not, perhaps one could be posted in a prominent location. My suggestion would be to add it to the wiki under http://www.hifi-remote.com/wiki/index.php/Remote_Master_Manual#Software. Please include the latest Java version with which RM has been tested as well as the minimum version required.
P.S. To avoid having to maintain this information in multiple locations, the installation could include a readme.lnk or readme.url pointing to the wiki topic instead of the readme.html file.
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 19587
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that RM always required "at least" version 7 of Java, but with some recent changes that Graham added, it now requires "at least" version 8. I don't think it has any problem with you using a more recent version of Java.
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Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!
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rsbrux



Joined: 25 Dec 2015
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:
I could be wrong, but my understanding is that RM always required "at least" version 7 of Java, but with some recent changes that Graham added, it now requires "at least" version 8. I don't think it has any problem with you using a more recent version of Java.

That is my understanding as well, but

  1. It was difficult to find the information about minimum versions.
  2. @barf's post above made me insecure about later versions. It is a common problem that major java version updates can break applications.

IAC, the purpose of my post was not so much to solicit information as it was to suggest putting it in a more easily accessible (and managed) place. Wink
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Barf
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Joined: 24 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a software release, the release notes (by RM contained in README.txt) is always the authoritative source of the exact requirements. Manuals, guides, etc have (normally) a much slower update pace, and should not be consulted for information that is supposed to change often (like versions of dependencies). So, wiki guides etc should preferably say something like "check the release note for the exact version required" (and, yes, a link can be helpful).

IrpTransmogrifier, which was included in RM version 2.09, requires Java 8 or later, which makes the whole packet be Java 8 (or later).

Regardless of what Oracle is up to, OpenJDK is a free implementation of Java, and will likely remain so.

FYI, I will pack OpenJDK with next version of IrScrutinizer (the AppImage, the Mac version, and the Windows setup-exe version (in the latter, the user can also select to use the system's Java). Feel free to test a pre-release version.
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rsbrux



Joined: 25 Dec 2015
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:21 am    Post subject: Java Update removes jave. Which version to install now? Reply with quote

Java Update just offered to update my Java 8 installation and uninstall the obsolete version. It uninstalled the obsolete version (231), but did not install the newer version (241) and did not issue any messages to that effect.

It would be nice of the readme.txt file and the wiki articles:
Installing RMIR and preparing it for use
Get Started
would specify whether to use 32-bit or 64-bit Java.
The latter still specifies "Java version 6.0 or later", but at least it has a link to a download page, which offers Oracle's java 13. However, the link is obsolete (sun.com) and should probably be updated. I leave it up to the experts here whether to direct it to Oracle (Java 13) or java.com (Java 8). I advise against linking to OpenJDK, since all I could find there were Linux installation packages.

BTW, hifi-remote's advanced Google search was not very helpful in finding this thread. It appears to ignore the recent contributions to the thread and eliminates it from consideration when a time filter (e.g. "past year") is used. Is there some way to make this work as expected?
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Barf
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Joined: 24 Oct 2008
Posts: 1138

PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:52 am    Post subject: Re: Java Update removes jave. Which version to install now? Reply with quote

rsbrux, please have a look at the current Windows distro of IrScrutinizer and give feedback. It comes with its own OpenJDK 11 (32 bit only) (but can also be installed using an already present Java). (Still the exe is only 30MB.) This is the OpenJDK used. Would that be something for RM?
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 19587
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:38 am    Post subject: Re: Java Update removes jave. Which version to install now? Reply with quote

rsbrux wrote:
BTW, hifi-remote's advanced Google search was not very helpful in finding this thread. It appears to ignore the recent contributions to the thread and eliminates it from consideration when a time filter (e.g. "past year") is used. Is there some way to make this work as expected?

That would be a question for Google.
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www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!
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