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Luxman TP-117
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n8nagel



Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:40 pm    Post subject: Luxman TP-117 Reply with quote

1. Device: Luxman TP-117
2. Type of device: Tuner/Preamp (includes CDP and 2x tape controls)
3. Year: 1990?
4. JP1/UEI Remote model: ARRX15G Xsight 15 (Xsight Color) AKA URC-8602
5. Do you have a JP1 cable? Yes
6. Still have original remote? Yes
7. Checked the file section? Yes
8. Checked Pronto file section (at R/C)? Yes, and there are codes listed, but not sure how to implement
9. Partially working setup code? Unknown. I am a complete noob.
10. Learning remote question? yes my remote can learn
11. Have you tried the JP1 Lookup Tool? yes
12. If you have a OARUSB04G, URC-6440 (or similar) remote, have you tried simpleset.com? N/A

Pronto hex codes are here:

http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/codes/luxman/receiver/page-1/

I was originally trying to get Logitech to add this device to their database based on these hex codes. Their tech support people whipped up for me a test device with just the codes and I was able to get my Harmony 650 working with the exception of the CD player control codes. I am not sure if they input them wrong or the list is wrong. I learned the codes to my Harmony, but the only way I could see to sensibly make this work was to split the TP-117 into three logical "devices"

Luxman TP-117 (includes codes for preamp, tuner, and Tape 1)
Luxman TP-117 Tape 2 Controller
Luxman TP-117 CD Player Controller

And then I would do the button mappings etc. Unfortunately I did not see any way to add a completely new device to a Harmony so I was reliant on Logitech to do this for me.

They either did not understand or just refused to do what I wanted. So I bought an Xsight Color and am going to attempt to program it to do what I want instead. I have a big learning curve here but this unit is useless without a functional remote, you need the remote to simply change inputs, otherwise all you can do is listen to the radio.

I plan to teach myself how to program this, but I figured before I dove in I would post and see if anyone else has done this before.

I have a spreadsheet of the codes as well copied off the RC list which is easier to manipulate if anyone wants to help me play with this.

Thank you for any help or advice you can offer!
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n8nagel



Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:19 pm    Post subject: RMIR devices taking each other's device and sub device codes Reply with quote

Hi all

Just downloaded RMIR today. Am trying to program an XSight Color to control a Luxman TP-117 tuner/preamp. I actually need 5 different "devices" to make this work apparently. I have found the Pronto Hex codes for most of this guy but will have to learn the CD player controller codes. I have a spreadsheet where I copied in the downloaded codes and converted them to NEC1.

Here's the problem. I have currently four devices

1) Luxman TP-117 Preamp
2) Luxman TP-117 Tuner
3) Luxman TP-117 Tape 1
4) Luxman TP-117 Tape 2

I will also someday have Luxman TP-117 CD but I'm having no joy getting it basically functional yet. The problem that I am having is each of the four logical "devices" above uses different device and subdevice codes from all the others when I convert the Pronto Hex. However once I have them programmed into RMIR, if I change the codes of one of the above, it will change them in all. I did pick different setup codes for all (started at 0117 for the preamp, obviously <G>)

This is my first time attempting to do this so please be kind.

I know I'm on the right track because when I had only the preamp programmed in, it worked.

I have a spreadsheet that I'm working on with all the codes etc. if anyone wants to play, and I can send my .rmirs as well

Thanks for any help!
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 18406
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Option 1 is to create a different upgrade for each device, which is the best option if you want to use a different device button for each device.

Option 2 is to use one of the "multi" versions of NEC1 which lets you combine device codes. The NEC 4Dev Combo will let you combine up to 4 different dev/sub combinations.
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Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!
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n8nagel



Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Rob and thanks for the reply

Between the Pronto codes from RC and the fact that I have one working RTP-117 I have got it working with five devices (preamp, tuner, Tape 1, Tape 2, and CD) man I have been obsessing over this today!

I will have to try the device combos to see if I can at least combine a few of these devices so as to keep this clean. I think I can combine Preamp, Tuner, and Tape 1 as no hard buttons are shared with those. Tape 2 and CD I think will have to remain standalone devices. It appears to be working right now with the 5 devices but I'm not ready to post my results as my Luxman CDP died so I can only confirm some of those codes. I should probably go to bed at some point and mess with this later but this is driving me nuts, a $20 thrift store purchase is making me mad trying to get it working...
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n8nagel



Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4DEV Combo appears to work. I am now down to three devices, "Luxman TP-117" which combines Preamp, Tuner, and Tape 1, then "Tape 2" and "CD". Will have to test more thoroughly when I have a working Luxman CD player to test with, but this is looking promising. I did have to rebuild the file system, apparently I've been banging this poor thing with my learning curve... This is the first time I've tried to do anything like this.

Stupid question. The TP-117 only has discrete power on/power off commands, not a power toggle. Is there a way to make the power button on the remote work given this scenario? Everything else appears to be pretty good.

I worked around the issue that was merged into this thread by saving the individual "devices" as individual upgrade files and then loading them. That appears to solve that problem.
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yaworski



Joined: 22 Jun 2014
Posts: 429
Location: Warsaw, Poland

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A good source of device upgrades is the UEI's simpleset.com website (it's a website dedicated to configuring URC-6440 and other simpleset remotes).

You don't actually need the URC-6440 (or others) to use the site. You can do it like this (just close any video hints you get along the way):
- Go to https://www.simpleset.com/. If you're asked about the region at some step, choose appropriately.
- The OS selection doesn't matter - it's only to select proper video tutorials.
- Click on the Restore Remote and then select Simple 4 remote (URC-6440 or OARUSB04G - depending on selected region). Confirm the Restore action. Your browser will download a Settings.bin file. Save it somewhere.
- Back on the home page, click Start Setup button.
- Select the Simple 4 remote again.
- You should get a screen telling you to "Upload the settings.bin file from OFA REMOTE drive". Press the upload button and select the Settings.bin file you've just downloaded.
- Click on the "Add a Device", then "Extra type", then "Amp, Receiver, Home Cinema, CD".
- Enter Luxman into the search box. Select it on the list and press Next button.
- The website should ask you if you're finished with the setup. You can press Yes.
- You should be redirected to a page with "Download Now" button. Press it and save the new Settings.bin file.

Now you can open the Settings.bin file you've just downloaded in the RMIR. Go to Devices tab. You should see quite a number of device upgrades, all for some Luxman devices (the starting Settings.bin was empty, so no other device upgrades). You can save each of the upgrades to an rmdu file and then import them into your Xsight configuration (it'll probably show some warning because of different remote type, so not all buttons are assigned correctly right away - you should check button assignment and correct them to your liking).

From what I can see, the simpleset.com even gives you a device upgrade using NEC 4DEV Combo (at least I got one for "the rest of the world" region I've selected).
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n8nagel



Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I followed your steps but how do I open the settings.bin file in RMIR?

I am really doing this more to learn than anything, I think I have 3x upgrades that will work correctly for this unit I just need to finish testing before I post them.


This little exercise has made me a believer though, I am going to keep an eyeball out for another unit because one of my Harmonies is getting twitchy and it's so nice to be able to fix things myself. Remote feels more quality in the hand too.

I think the preamp, tuner, Tape 1 and Tape 2 functions are good so that's two upgrade files that I'm 100% confident in. CD may take me a while to verify because as I said before my CDP stopped tracking so I can't actually play a disc in it. Play, Stop, and numbers are working though. The file at Remote Central was incorrect in this respect; I had to learn all the buttons and then input them into the upgrade in NEC1 format. I see there's a file section here but it doesn't look like I can post there, how do I go about sharing those files?

Also, I found this site http://irdb.tk/convert/ and was using it to convert back and forth so I have both Pronto Hex and NEC1 codes documented in the spreadsheet that I am keeping for this (makes it so easy, once I have it in the spreadsheet I just copy the data right into RMIR) is there an easier way to convert? It's pretty tedious copying and pasting one hex code in and hitting convert, then back, lather rinse repeat.
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mdavej
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Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Posts: 3752

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

File - Open should allow you to open the bin in RMIR.

Click the UPLOAD button at the top of the page in the appropriate file section for your device in order to post your upgrade(s). Any miscellaneous files you want to share can be posted in the Diagnosis section.

IR Scrutinizer is the best tool for converting codes. It can output directly to RM format, no copy/paste required. But there is a bit of a learning curve. It is, however, very well documented.
https://github.com/bengtmartensson/harctoolboxbundle/releases/latest (the exe is the easiest one to install on windows)

Documentation: http://www.harctoolbox.org/IrScrutinizer.html

It's always nice to see a new JP1 convert discover the power of these remotes and our software.
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n8nagel



Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. I was just playing with IRScrutinizer as you were typing apparently.

What I've done so far is here

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bnxuhcmgoxzfclm/Luxman%20TP-117%20Codes.xls?dl=0

Dropbox link because I want to be 100% sure on the CD codes before uploading
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yaworski



Joined: 22 Jun 2014
Posts: 429
Location: Warsaw, Poland

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I fully agree with mdavej regarding IrScrutinizer. It's really worth learning how to use it. After you open it, you can just paste Pronto code into the "Scrutinize signal" tab and press Scrutinize button. Or you can just press "Paste & Scr." which automatically pastes whatever you have in the clipboard and scrutinizes it.

It's also worth buying or even making a device which will allow you to capture and send IR signals from IrScrutinizer. I've built this one http://www.harctoolbox.org/arduino_nano.html and it works great. It'll allow you to analyse IR signals on the fly and also generate and send any IR signal. If you need to look for some codes it's much faster than modifying device upgrade, uploading and testing with the remote.
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mdavej
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Joined: 08 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go ahead and post your incomplete files in the Diagnosis section. Dropbox and other file hosting sites are block by my company, so I can't access them. Plus, they can go away in the future, whereas files posted here will remain here. When you're satisfied they're correct, just edit your posted file(s) and change to the appropriate folder.
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n8nagel



Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK here are the files that I had on my dropbox

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=25237

I also tried to learn the remote codes for the CD player from its own remote but that really isn't going well and the CDP doesn't work anyway so that is kind of a waste of time. Only reason for doing this is a) the exercise and b) if anyone ever wanted to use this CDP not connected to a Luxman preamp or receiver by the control cable (as in with another brand preamp)

The odd thing is that it appears that the codes that the TP-117 receives to control the CDP through the control cable are the same ones that the CDP gets from its remote through its own sensor. You'd think that would cause weirdness like double skips forward or something but maybe the IR sensor is disabled if you're using the control cable. Who knows.

Any comments welcome. It's actually working pretty well aside from the whole CD player being nonfunctional.

I also posted another thread because sure enough the CD player that I was going to use in place of the Lux one doesn't have a remote... Adcom GCD-700, doesn't look like there is much out there for that guy.

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=101281

As to the comment above about the bin files from simpleset.com I didn't realize that I needed to open it like a whole new configuration file, I get it now. Just mentioning it in case another n00b has the same question I did. Unfortunately I was still not able to find anything useful for the GCD-700...
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 18406
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Btw, even though your intention is to group all of these together into 1 or 2 upgrades, as we don't have upgrade files for most of these components in our file section, could you please create individual upgrades for each of them and load them into the relevant sections.
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n8nagel



Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Rob,

If you're referring to the extra CD and BD players that were in the .rmir that I posted I sure will. I was just playing to see what I could do especially since Oppo publishes code lists right on their web site so putting those together was trivial. I don't think it's part of what I posted but I have been working on one for an Adcom GCD-700 as well. It may be worthwhile to maybe mirror the Oppo code lists somewhere since as of a month or so ago Oppo is completely out of the media player business save for potentially one last run of the UDP-205, but the code lists are still up on their web site. As there are three possible device codes for each unit, it would take a while to make upgrades for all the permutations, but at least they are pretty consistent series to series with only a few button differences. But anyway, the first three upgrades in that .rmir that I posted actually are all the same physical device - I had to split it apart to fit it all on the remote, one upgrade would have involved a lot of soft keys for no apparent reason, and I didn't see any way to utilize five different device codes in the same logical device within RMIR anyway. The Tape 1, Tape 2 and CDP are not real devices - those are controllers for same built into the TP-117 preamp, that communicate to compatible Luxman components through special cables (the cassette decks actually do not have IR receivers at all; they ONLY communicate through an 8 pin cable where each function just makes the corresponding conductor go hot. The CDP has a mono headphone cable, I wonder if that is just sending the electrical equivalent of the IR signal, haven't looked into it enough.) The tuner is integral to the preamp, but is a different device code from the preamp functions, so they are essentially two separate components in the same box. This is why I had to get an activity based remote to duplicate the original Luxman remote - and probably why Logitech just didn't understand why I insisted that it needed to be a minimum of three devices for one physically rather small component.

The TP-117 is a weird product; it apparently was NA market only, and the Luxman brand has gone through a few hands since it was made, so while Luxman tech support has tried to be helpful, they weren't really much use - I had to figure out how to build the cassette deck control cables from scratch with schematics and a meter. I actually shared that info with Luxman tech support when I was done. (I was lucky enough that when I found this unit, I already owned a lower end Luxman receiver, two matching cassette decks, and a CDP all from the same era/series of products, which is why I could do all this with minimal expense. I still do not have working modern equivalents for the accessory IR receivers and repeaters, but one thing at a time.) But anyway it is not *just* a tuner/preamp; it was apparently intended to be the basis of a whole house distributed audio system, you could stack up to three TP-117s and add remote sensors throughout your house so you could have one set of source components providing sound (and composite video, which is pretty useless today - it's essentially only useful for two channel audio now) in up to six different zones, all individually controllable. That is why this remote is so ungodly complex. HOWEVER using something like an Xsight makes this even better because if you add a 3rd party source component, if you had the original Luxman IR receivers and repeaters it would all work seamlessly with still only one remote!

The problem, of course, is that I got this thing cheap and it works well, AND it is a damn good sounding preamp when used just by itself in a two channel audio rig, as you would say an Adcom GTP-500 or similar. So while I will not likely use the multi zone features of this I am not giving up on it until it works as it should.

Here's an article on it from back in the day if you are curious.

http://www.hifi-classic.net/review/luxman-tp-117-202.html

If you could though please comment on any style faux pas I've made in that .rmir and/or things I should have done that I didn't etc. I would appreciate it. I asked some of the questions that came to mind now that I've had a little experience with RMIR here

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=101282

and if you see anything else I've messed up that I didn't ask about, I'd be happy to hear about that as well. Once you all think what I've done is good I plan on making a "clean" .rmir for just the TP-117 only with activities for each selectable input as named on the display although it will by necessity have three upgrades so someone else with the same unit could load that into their remote and then customize it for their specific situation. Then anything else that I've done (Oppos, duplicating the Luxman CDP remote, the Adcom CDP, etc.) I will upload separately. Does that sound like the right way to do it?

Thanks again!
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n8nagel



Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would really appreciate if someone would take a look... was just asked if I could reprogram the Xsight for the HT because the Harmony 650 is dying (more dead buttons daily)

Again, things I'd like people to comment on here:

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=101282

Or anything else you see that isn't done as you would do it.

There is going to have to be some learning/custom work for the HT because the exact models of TV, BDP, cable box (although it's FiOS, I think the old motorola boxes used the exact same remote so that may just be renaming the upgrade) and receiver are not listed that I see so I'd be taking other upgrades and learning/modifying them, so I'm hesitant to press on (and then uploading my flawed upgrades/code lists) until someone says "yeah, you've pretty much got it now"

Damn, I'm looking in the closet and I've got some obscure stuff in there that probably isn't documented; and old Toshiba HD-DVD player, some Samsung BDPs that I picked up at the thrift because they play SACDs, stuff like that. This could get time consuming if I decide that I need to document upgrades for all of these; fortunately the Adcom CDP that I posted about earlier is the only thing I think I have for which I do not at least have the factory remote.
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