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Roku & TiVo together

 
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Bob_Collins



Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:30 pm    Post subject: Roku & TiVo together Reply with quote

Has anyone else noticed this, or had issues with this?

I have a Roku 3 and a Roku Ultra. I also use a TiVo Roamio. I currently use the RCA RCRP05BR remote which I programmed with the JP-1. This has worked for me many years now, and continues to work just fine with the Roku 3. I have issues with the Roku Ultra however.

If I pull the Roku 3 out and replace it with the Ultra, then the TiVo remote seems to interfere with the Roku Ultra. Basically, if I have just finished watching the Roku, and it is still "awake", when I use the TiVo remote (either from the aforementioned RCA remote, or even the actual TiVo remote), it cause the LED on the Roku to blink/react like it is receiving some remote signal. Then when I go back to the Roku, if I have not exited out of the channel I was watching, it is playing a video, and likely will continue playing as many channels automatically start the following item, or chain into another video. Again, if I put the Roku 3 back in place of the Roku Ultra, it doesn't do this.

I have called Roku, and they are pretty useless; They open a ticket and escalate it, but won't tell me when I can expect a response, but that a response will be coming. Then after about 2 week, they tell it is a TiVo issue, which it is not. TiVo has used the same codes for a long time before Roku came on the market, and the Roku Ultra is the only one I am having issues with. I am still fighting with them over this, but at their speed in responding to me, it is going to take forever to get anything out of them.

So here I am, asking if anyone else has noticed this issue or a similar one with the newer Rokus? I would prefer to use the Ultra as it is much faster than the Roku 3, but can't, it is sitting on my kitchen table in a bag, unused until I get something figured out.

So, to any user using a Roku Ultra along with a Tivo Roamio (or pretty much any TiVo), can chime in, I would love to hear about your experiences and ways around this issue.
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mdavej
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Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Posts: 3500

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the only thing you can do is change the IR address sent from your RCA and Tivo remotes. I don't remember how to do this on the Roamio or its remote (you'll have to search for that), but you can change your RCA to a different address on the Setup tab in RM. Roamio also has to change to match before it will work.

First you may want to try these upgrades of mine and see if they make any difference.

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=12733
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=13879
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Bob_Collins



Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So have you noticed this issue before?

Another thing that changed with the Roku Ultra was the timing of the left, right, and up, down when navigating the menus, so it is likely going to need to be upgraded as well, which I did, and the problem is still there.

I know what you mean about setting the address of the Roamio, and I thought of that before, but did not know where or how to change it in RM. I'll take a look now and see if it is clear to me, or if i still have questions.

Would that be the "unit code" that needs changed to change the device setting of the TiVo?
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3FG
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Joined: 19 May 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have either Roku or Tivo, but I have read repeatedly that the Ultra has problems with IR remotes. In some instances, apparently upgrading to newer firmware has fixed the problems. Since your unit is mostly not hooked up, perhaps it is running relatively old firmware?

The Tivo and Roku IR protocols have nearly identical framing, but 16 of the 32 bits each sends per frame are definitely different. There is no way that a well-functioning Roku should respond to Tivo signals. Changing unit numbers may help, but I'll be surprised if it does.
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mike.s



Joined: 03 Feb 2017
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a Roku problem, they're acting on codes which are not for them.

Roku Premiere+ and TiVo (and a Denon receiver). Both Roku and TiVo use unique NEC2 variants, and different device/subdevices. Roku, 234/194. TiVo, 133/48.

There's no way a Roku should pay any attention to a TiVo code. But Roku is "recognizing" codes it should be ignoring. If I change to the TiVo input on the receiver, some TiVo codes will tickle the Roku, and it will use HDMI CEC to grab the input back. Ugg. Specifically, the TiVo remote "guide" button will cause the last used Roku button to repeat (i.e. if you did Roku down arrow, pressing guide on the TiVo remote acts like pressing it again). I'm pretty sure there are other TiVo buttons which will affect the Roku.

It took me forever to figure that out, it only happens until the Roku goes to sleep. At least Roku lets you change the CEC behavior - if you turn off Settings/System/Control other devices/1-touch play then Roku no longer grabs the input from the TiVo. But it shouldn't be happening in the first place.

Bad Roku. And, Roku is aware of the issue. Until they fix the issue, I just try to remember to hit the Roku Home button when I'm done with it.
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Bob_Collins



Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad to know it is not just me, and yes, hitting the Roku "home" button to take me back to the highest menu is what I was doing previously also.

I know this is a Roku issue, and I had it hooked up just last week to play with it, so the firmware should be up to date (or fairly close). I know they need to fix it, but convincing them of it is another story, and so is getting to someone other than the overseas support folks.

I tried picking anther unit code, but the upgrade code to paste into IR never seems to change, that I can tell. What am I doing wrong with that piece of it?
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mdavej
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only one number will change. But, you really must use RM, not IR, in order for the newer protocols and posted upgrades to work.

My official UEI Roku upgrade does not use NEC2.
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mike.s



Joined: 03 Feb 2017
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're on Twitter, tweet to @RokuSupport. They claim to have opened a ticket for my detailed complaint, but that was over a month ago, new firmware has come out since, and nothing has changed. They're also on reddit.
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mike.s



Joined: 03 Feb 2017
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdavej wrote:
My official UEI Roku upgrade does not use NEC2.
I called it an NEC2 variant, based on this thread.
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Bob_Collins



Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdavej wrote:
Only one number will change. But, you really must use RM, not IR, in order for the newer protocols and posted upgrades to work.

My official UEI Roku upgrade does not use NEC2.


I use RM to map the buttons and everything, then I copy the code from the last page and paste it into IR as a new device, then set the code to match, and test it out. Is that wrong, or the right way to do this?
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Bob_Collins



Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike.s wrote:
If you're on Twitter, tweet to @RokuSupport. They claim to have opened a ticket for my detailed complaint, but that was over a month ago, new firmware has come out since, and nothing has changed. They're also on reddit.


I am not on twitter, but will attempt to look them up on Reddit. What is your case number, so I can reference them and let them know there are others seeing the same thing you did?
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mdavej
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry mike, I must have glossed over that bit. Thanks for reporting to Roku.

Bob, if by "IR" you mean the old IR program, then that may work, I don't really remember. But I'd rather you use RMIR instead of IR so we're all on the same page. Plus with RMIR, there's no copy/paste of protocols and upgrades to deal with. It all happens automatically. Since you run RM, you already have RMIR. So just open RMIR, open your old IR file and save as an RMIR file and use that from now on. Then you can do all your upgrade management directly from the Devices tab and no more copy/paste required.
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3FG
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Joined: 19 May 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Specifically, the TiVo remote "guide" button will cause the last used Roku button to repeat (i.e. if you did Roku down arrow, pressing guide on the TiVo remote acts like pressing it again)
Interesting. We have seen this kind of issue with e.g. Vizio sound bars, which use NEC1. NEC1 causes repeats by sending "ditto" frames, and the ditto frame is the same regardless of the OBCs, etc of the original signal. So a badly designed component which responds to dittos even if some other NEC1 signal intervenes can exhibit unwanted repeats of whatever signal it last acted on. Tivo uses a variant of NEC1, and it does send dittos.

Now I'm wondering: Has Roku by accident implemented their protocol with NEC1 style framing instead of NEC2 type?
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mike.s



Joined: 03 Feb 2017
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3FG wrote:
Now I'm wondering: Has Roku by accident implemented their protocol with NEC1 style framing instead of NEC2 type?
I assume a proper implementation would time-out if not receiving any signal for some short time (a second or two). The Roku doesn't even time out - it will repeat the command even a minute or two later.
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3FG
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the Vizio sound bar I'm referring to would still do a bogus repeat the next morning, according to the person who owned it. Clearly bad design.
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