JP1 Remotes

Jason,

We have success (well kinda)!!!

Ok, the scoop this time is:
Code #1 works via IR 100% of the time and via RF 0% of the time (not at all). Code #2 works via IR 100% of the time and via RF 90% of the time. Code #3 works via IR 100% of the time and via RF 99% of the time (which is good enough for me!).

HOWEVER, there is one exception, I thought the command centers were all the same, but evidentally I was WRONG! The working code only worked with the one for all command center which came with my 9910. The older 15-1995 command center would only control the DVD 25% of the time with Code #3 loaded. I called my friend (who also has a 1995) and asked her to bring over her command center and remote for testing. After taking flack as to why I was "stuck on this crazy stuff", she brought over her 15-1995 and her command center. They both worked exactly as mine did (i.e. her command center only controlled the DVD 25% of the time, but her remote controlled the DVD 99% of the time through my 9910 command center).

Unfortunately, I left the two 15-2117s in my brother's car and do not have them here to play with. Thus, I cannot tell you till tomorrow if the command centers from the 2117 also work as well as the one from the 9910 (I am assuming they will).

Also, while on the 2117 suibject, since the 15-2117 does not control the DVD correctly via RF, can I load Code #3 into that as well?

Julie

P.S. Jason thanks for all the hard work, your a genius!

Julie5040 wrote:After taking flack as to why I was "stuck on this crazy stuff", she brought over her 15-1995 and her command center.

What??? You haven't converted her over to the wonders of JP1 yet?

Unfortunately, I left the two 15-2117s in my brother's car and do not have them here to play with.

Julie, Julie, Julie... I'm surprised to hear you even took the remote out of your hand to begin with!

Also, while on the 2117 suibject, since the 15-2117 does not control the DVD correctly via RF, can I load Code #3 into that as well?

The 1995 uses a different processor than the 2117, so the code is not portable between them.

gjarboni wrote:<whoosh>

Okay, here's a deal, since I've created the protocols, could you explain what AGC is (or what AC coupled means in this context). This <whoosh> was the sound of what you said going over my head

I'll step in here and answer your questions... AGC stands for Automatic Gain Control, meaning that the command center would have some method of compensating for the fact that the signal strength will be different based on how far away the source is. Since the the circuits in the command center would normally expect some optimal voltage range, an AGC circuit would try to adjust the varying RF input closer to that optimal level.

I'm not entirely sure what he was getting at with the comment about AC coupled, but basically that means that a changing signal (i.e. AC) willl get passed into the circuit while a non-changing signal (i.e. DC) would not. This would generally be useful in an amplifier circuit to amplify the signal and not the DC component (which could be noise etc.).

Hope that helps a little.

Just FYI, if you want to make the data frame repeat 3 times for NEC1 signals, you can set bit1 of the parm byte (ie, the first fixed data byte).

In this case the fixed data is "00 DF --" (where it doesn't matter what's in the 3rd byte). The parm byte is the first byte, so it's current value is "00", which in binary is "00000000". If you set bit1, the binary becomes "00000010", which in hex is "02".

So, if you change the fixed data to "02 DF DF" the data frame will repeat 3 times before the signal changes to the normal repeat pattern.

For further details of how the parm byte works, see this thread...
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=169

Julie5040 wrote:Jason,

We have success (well kinda)!!!

Ok, the scoop this time is:
Code #1 works via IR 100% of the time and via RF 0% of the time (not at all). Code #2 works via IR 100% of the time and via RF 90% of the time. Code #3 works via IR 100% of the time and via RF 99% of the time (which is good enough for me!).

HOWEVER, there is one exception, I thought the command centers were all the same, but evidentally I was WRONG! The working code only worked with the one for all command center which came with my 9910. The older 15-1995 command center would only control the DVD 25% of the time with Code #3 loaded.

Julie

P.S. Jason thanks for all the hard work, your a genius!

Thanks! I'm glad we have success to report (finally ). I've created three new versions to see if we could get the 15-1995's command center working. Any electronics gurus have any idea what the difference might be or what a protocol should do to further improve the work around? These protocols set the duty cycle back to the default and vary the time of the initial IR pulse and the time we wait before sending the real IR signal.

0B 1A 31 80 15 F6 B8 01 17 08 08 01 A6 03 1C 69
78 56 06 CC 02 08 01 01 03 DB 1F 0C A2 69 A0 78
22 44 0F 0C A2 69 A0 78 22 44 E6 5B 3C 02 5C 97
5D 05 7F 7F 3C AE 73 57 5D 17 22 10 D0 13 A7 5D
04 E6 5B 80 0C A9 80 45 5E 85 5E A9 80 45 5F 85
5F B7 5D 03 3C EE 7E 07 5D 20 77 5D 04 22 09 90
19 37 5D 02 22 00 97 5D 0F 22 00 3C C0 7E 44 5E
3C 01 6B 22 06 90 03 60 4F 7F 2F 7F 4C 00 FF

0B 1A 31 80 15 F6 B8 01 17 08 08 01 A6 03 1C 69
78 56 06 CC 02 08 01 01 03 DB 1F 0C A2 69 A0 78
22 44 0F 0C A2 69 A0 06 22 44 E6 5B 3C 02 5C 97
5D 05 7F 7F 3C AE 73 57 5D 17 22 10 D0 13 A7 5D
04 E6 5B 80 0C A9 80 45 5E 85 5E A9 80 45 5F 85
5F B7 5D 03 3C EE 7E 07 5D 20 77 5D 04 22 09 90
19 37 5D 02 22 00 97 5D 0F 22 00 3C C0 7E 44 5E
3C 01 6B 22 06 90 03 60 4F 7F 2F 7F 4C 00 FF

0B 1A 31 80 15 F6 B8 01 17 08 08 01 A6 03 1C 69
78 56 06 CC 02 08 01 01 03 DB 1F 0C A2 69 A0 06
22 44 0F 0C A2 69 A0 06 22 44 E6 5B 3C 02 5C 97
5D 05 7F 7F 3C AE 73 57 5D 17 22 10 D0 13 A7 5D
04 E6 5B 80 0C A9 80 45 5E 85 5E A9 80 45 5F 85
5F B7 5D 03 3C EE 7E 07 5D 20 77 5D 04 22 09 90
19 37 5D 02 22 00 97 5D 0F 22 00 3C C0 7E 44 5E
3C 01 6B 22 06 90 03 60 4F 7F 2F 7F 4C 00 FF

Mark Pierson wrote:What??? You haven't converted her over to the wonders of JP1 yet?

Unfortunately, that will never happen. Even my own brother thinks I'm crazy, let alone my girlfriend!

Mark Pierson wrote:Julie, Julie, Julie... I'm surprised to hear you even took the remote out of your hand to begin with!

Please understand that not being a guy I do not have it glued to my palm!

-------------------

SEPARATELY, I did get my 2117s back today and tested both of the command centers with Code #3 that Jason wrote, and they both work EXACTLY like the one for all command center which came with the 9910.

Also, I was assuming that the 1995 command centers and the 2117 command centers were the same during my testing. With all the confusion over the past week, what I have found is that the 9910 controls the DVD with my old 1995 command center for just the first few commands. The 2117s do not even do that, they work like the 1995 with the 1995 command centers. However, now that I understand the command centers are different, I have attempted to sort this out further. What I have found is that the 9910 and the 2117 (using code 672) both control the Apex DVD (with their newer command centers) about 97% of the time via RF (100% via IR from the remote). If I use the 1995 remote with the newer command centers and Jason's code, I get 99% control of the DVD.

Thus, Jason's code is better than what is programmed into the 9910 and the 2117 for the Apex DVD 5131 player!

Julie

Julie5040 wrote:Please understand that not being a guy I do not have it glued to my palm!

Shame on you! 8)

Sorry for the delay in replying; was out of town on business.

AGC is Automatic Gain Control, as johann83 stated. What is relevant here is that an AGC has a finite response time, and during this time period, the signal may be distorted. Remember that the RF receiver is suddenly going from no-signal to full-signal, and that response time is likely to be at it's maximum during this period.

A similar effect happens when the digital signal is AC-coupled (i.e., connected through a capacitor). The circuit will have a response time as it reacts to changing signals, and this too may cause distortion.

The whole idea behind my theory here is that the NEC1 protocol only sends meaningful data during the very first frame, and the RF receiver may be distorting this frame so that the DVD's IR decoder rejects it. Sending a fairly long carrier burst first gives the RF receiver time to adjust to the signal before sending the real first frame of the NEC1 signal. At the same time, the long burst is rejected by the DVD's IR decoder regardless of whether it is distorted or not.

The results that Julie is getting would seem to indicate we're on the right track here.

I'm not sure how long the burst would need to be. That's something that would have to be experimented with. It absolutely must be something the DVD's IR decoder will always reject. It could even be a different carrier frequency. Perhaps the 1995 RF receivers have a longer response time and may need a longer burst.

Also, I don't know exactly how long a gap shoud be inserted after the burst before sending the NEC1 frames; that is mostly a function of the way the DVD's IR decoder works (how much "dead" time it needs before it can decode a new signal). My hunch says to make it about one frame's worth, but shorter may work too.

Julie5040 wrote:

Mark Pierson wrote:Julie, Julie, Julie... I'm surprised to hear you even took the remote out of your hand to begin with!

Please understand that not being a guy I do not have it glued to my palm! Julie

She's talking about guys and their palms, I'm not even gonna touch that one! Hey Rosie...