Toadtog and Koss KD260

[floyd1977]

Have you tried any of the other Koss upgrades in the File Section? In an earlier post, you said you were going to try, but I don't know what ever happened with that.

[Capn Trips]

L4 always works to toggle power.

L2 will SOMETIMES power on the player. For example, if I turn the player off manually and hit L1 (to clear the toggle bit), L2 powers on the player. But then L1 won't power off the player, even though L2 has set the toggle bit. If I hit L1, nothing happens. But the if I hit L2 again, it powers OFF the player, which L2 is NOT supposed to do.

L1 behaves similarly.

The L3 power toggle doesn't seem to work at all.

Well, that is freaky indeed.

Can you visually (by watching the LED) tell if the remote is sending signals in those cases where you expect it to, but the DVD player is not responding? That may help determine if your problem is with the remote/extender/TT protocol/implementation OR with the DVD player and/or its response to those remote signals.

How does it behave for CONSECUTIVE pushes of L2 and L1. i.e. do they simply behave like toggle power commands? or does L2 power it off only AFTER you've again pushed L1 (to no effect) and the TT flag is cleared?

I fear I'm not being clear:

Initial state - all off, no TT flag set:
Push L2 - it powers ON (yes/no)
Push L2 again - what happens?
Push L1 - it powers OFF (yes/no)
Push L2 - if OFF it comes ON, if ON, it comes OFF (yes/no)

Back to initial state:
Push L3 nothing EVER happens? regardless of flag setting?

That's really weird.

Are you sure that the other devices for which you use TT are setting/clearing the flag properly? (I realize they are already discrete signals, but the flag should still do its thing, right? and does your artificially-created toggle command for those work properly?)

Have you tried a different flag (like use toggle number 5 instead of 1)? Maybe there's some glitch in the extender, TT protocol or in the EEPROM that that memory location isn't storing the toggle state properly?

As a likely unrelated aside, when I open your IR file and select edit for each of the LKPs, the window displays the incorrect choices for the two button sequences, e.g. when I select L1 (Force OFF) to edit, the windows display "Already On Keys" and "Off/On Keys" (which of course correspond to the "Force ON selection". This display corrects itself when I RE-select the "Condition" desired. Now the Hex strams remain unchanged, so I think this is just an IR display issue, but I wonder if it's somehow related?

I don't have a remote in this family, so I have no direct experience with this extender, and I can't really test anything out.

[Capn Trips]

Further, I notice that you have DV/0651 added as an upgrade AND you have the 0045 protocol upgrade added. The Devices.xls spreadsheet (you can find it in the tools section) indicates that the DVD/0651 upgrade and 0045 protocol are resident in the 8811, so you should NOT require the protocol upgrade (the device upgrade is, of course, your choice, for potentially "better" key mappings).

Try deleting the protocol upgrade and using the built-in 0045 protocol and see if it works any differently.

(I'm not optimistic this will have any effect, since a byte-by-byte comparison of the manual settings protocol 0045 matches the 0045 RECS80(45) protocol exactly)

[floyd1977]

As a likely unrelated aside, when I open your IR file and select edit for each of the LKPs, the window displays the incorrect choices for the two button sequences, e.g. when I select L1 (Force OFF) to edit, the windows display "Already On Keys" and "Off/On Keys" (which of course correspond to the "Force ON selection". This display corrects itself when I RE-select the "Condition" desired. Now the Hex strams remain unchanged, so I think this is just an IR display issue, but I wonder if it's somehow related?"

I have seen this behavior too, but my ToadTogs work fine.

[Bebel]

I'll answer all your questions in order.

Have you tried any of the other Koss upgrades in the File Section? In an earlier post, you said you were going to try, but I don't know what ever happened with that.

I deleted the existing Koss upgrades and protocols from my 8811 and I downloaded fresh copies of the upgrades, just in case I had messed with them manually. I assigned the DVD/Phantom1-Phantom3 macros to L1-L3 for the purposes of testing the upgrades quickly. Here are the results (there are 3 upgrades available):

Upgrade name: "Koss KD260 0651.txt":

(1) On DVD press, TV and RCVR power on; DVD doesn't (it should).

(2) L4 toggles DVD power correctly.

(3) LKP DVD toggles power correctly.

(4) Power (short press) has no effect.

(5) Direction keys and select work when the player is on. Play, pause etc. function as expected.

(6) L1 and L2 behave incorrectly, as described in my last post. As for L3, it works SOMETIMES, but only if I hit L2 immediately before hitting L3 (this is a correction to what I said in my last post about it never working). Similarly L3 turns the player on, but only if I hit L1 immediately before L3. But this is inconsistent; I can hit L2 or L1 followed by L3 and most of the time it won't have any effect. And sometimes hitting L1-L3 will turn the player off.

Upgrade name: "DVD KOSS KS5121-2_Ver1.1.rmdu". Same as above.

Upgrade name: "Koss_DVP2163.txt". Same as above.

It seems to me that this isn't about the player's IR codes, but rather about the TT bit not being set and cleared correctly. But more on that in my next post, where I'll reply to Capn Trips.

EDIT: This conclusion may be premature given the results of the following tests.

[Bebel]

Can you visually (by watching the LED) tell if the remote is sending signals in those cases where you expect it to, but the DVD player is not responding?

I'm using the Koss KD260 0651 upgrade here. This includes a modified protocol. I'll reply in a moment to the question about deleting the protocol so that the remote defaults to the internal $0045.

Also I changed the DVD device key to call L4 instead of Phantom2, so that I can set the remote to the DVD player keyset without changing the TT toggle state. Strangely, hitting DVD the first time doesn't power on the player, but thereafter it works correctly. Anyway, on with the tests.

Initial state - all off, no TT flag set:
Push L2 - LED on, DVD player does NOT power on.
Push L2 again - LED off, DVD player does nothing. (As expected because the TT bit should have been set by the previous L2, even though the player didn't power on.)
Push L1 - LED on, DVD powers ON. (Isn't this crazy?)
Push L2 - LED on, player stays on.
Push L2 again - LED off, player still stays on.
Push L1 - LED on, player still stays on.
Push L3 - LED on, player powers off. (One of the rare occasions when L3 seems to work).
Push L3 again - LED on, player stays off.
Push L2 - LED on, player stays off (LED is on, as expected...)
Push L1 - LED on, player stays off.
Push L2 - LED on, player stays off.

Back to initial state :
L3 - LED on, player stays off.

L4 works at all times.

Are you sure that the other devices for which you use TT are setting/clearing the flag properly?

Yes, these devices work as expected, i.e., Power SKP toggles the power on the selected device and Power LKP powers down all (DUDE) devices.

Have you tried a different flag (like use toggle number 5 instead of 1)?

Yes. That was one of the first things I tried. No change.

As a likely unrelated aside, when I open your IR file and select edit for each of the LKPs, the window displays the incorrect choices for the two button sequences.

I noticed this too, but I ignored it because the hex codes were correct.

So... what conclusions do I draw from all this? Because L4 always works, I am hesitant about concluding that the problem is with the player's IR codes. On the other hand, because the remote LED comes on and stays off when it's supposed to, it would seem the TT bit is being set and cleared correctly. (I think I'm right about this, judging by the LED behaviour in the above tests.) So all in all I have no clue at all about what's going on.

I am at a total loss.

Thanks again!

Edited spelling.

[Bebel]

One additional detail. I tried to create an upgrade from scratch for my DVD player, just to see what would happen. I never got it to work, but as I was learning the IR codes from the original remote, I noticed that there were T=0 or T=1 values in the "Misc" column in IR (under "Learned Signals"), e.g., T=0 (1589/677/344). (The numbers in parentheses are made up, but that was what the line looked like.) What are these T values and what role do they play in the process? And more importantly, how do I include them in my upgrade if I want to continue making one from scratch? Thanks!

EDIT: Added thanks!

[Bebel]

Try deleting the protocol upgrade and using the built-in 0045 protocol and see if it works any differently.

No change to the previously described behaviour, as far as I can see.

[The Robman]

I have modified your post to include links to the three upgrades that you tested, just so people know exactly which files you are referring to. I checked out the three files in question and I noticed the following facts.

1) The Koss KD260 0651.TXT file uses "manual settings". The protocol upgrade included in this file is exactly the same as the protocol that's built into the URC-8811, so it's not necessary. Using the protocol upgrade will waste upgrade memory, but won't have any affect on the signals generated.

2) The DVD KOSS KS5121-2_Ver1.1.rmdu file uses the official "RECS80(45)" protocol

3) The Koss_DVP2163.txt file uses NEC1 protocol with a device code of 1.
I am surprised that this file worked for you as it uses a completely different protocol to the other two files that you tested. Are you 100% sure that you tested it properly.

as I was learning the IR codes from the original remote, I noticed that there were T=0 or T=1 values in the "Misc" column in IR (under "Learned Signals"), e.g., T=0 (1589/677/344). (The numbers in parentheses are made up, but that was what the line looked like.) What are these T values and what role do they play in the process? And more importantly, how do I include them in my upgrade if I want to continue making one from scratch?

The RECS80 protocol includes a toggle bit, which gets represented as T=0 or T=1 when you learn a signal. You don't need to worry about this when you're building an upgrade.

I do wonder however, if the toggle bit in the signal is working correctly when you use Toadtog with this protocol. (John would be able to speak to that). If there's an issue with the RECS80 toggle bit, and if you confirm that the NEC1 upgrade also works, you might have more success if you concentrate on using the NEC1 upgrade here.

[Bebel]

I have no idea whether this has any bearing at all on what's going on, but I decided to go back to learning mode to see if the original remote consistently sent the same signal when I pushed the power button. (I know, I know, I'm getting desperate. I'm trying hard to rule things out but I'm very much in the dark because I'm a beginner at programming remotes.)

This is what IR reports when I download the learned keys from my 8811:

Protocol: RECS80
Device: 5
Hex command: 84

But the T value alternates between 1 and 0 on repeated presses of the power button on the original remote. In other words, I got my 8811 to learn the power button 16 times in a row (all to different buttons on the 8811, of course) -- as follows:

First press: T=1 (158/5092/7638)
Second press: T=0 (158/5092/7638)
Third press: T=1 (158/5092/7638)
Fourth press: T=0 (158/5092/7638)
And so on...

I realize this may betray my total ignorance of remote codes (as I said in a previous post, I don't know what T values refer to), but I thought I'd mention it just because it may have a bearing on the code my 8811 is sending to the DVD player.

Thanks!

[The Robman]

the T value alternates between 1 and 0 on repeated presses of the power button on the original remote

Which is exactly what it's supposed to do.

[Bebel]

The Koss KD260 0651.TXT file uses "manual settings". The protocol upgrade included in this file is exactly the same as the protocol that's built into the URC-8811, so it's not necessary.

Thanks for your help! When I use the built-in 0651 protocol, many buttons don't work as expected on the 8811. For example, the pause button doesn't work at all and the play button won't resume play when I'm fast-forwarding or rewinding. The 0651 upgrade I found on this site does assign the correct functions to the buttons. Perhaps it should be labelled 1651?

The Koss_DVP2163.txt file uses NEC1 protocol with a device code of 1. I am surprised that this file worked for you as it uses a completely different protocol to the other two files that you tested. Are you 100% sure that you tested it properly.

Sorry, sorry, I don't know what happened there. When I use this upgrade, the power button (mapped to L4) does turn the player on and off. But the other functions (direction keys, select, play, pause etc.) don't work. Many apologies for the confusion. However, on the more substantive issue of the ToadTog problems I've been having, nothing changes. In other words, because the power command in this upgrade works on my player, I could still test the functioning of my Phantom1-Phantom3/L1-L3 buttons. And in those tests, I encountered the same problem with this upgrade as with the others.

The RECS80 protocol includes a toggle bit, which gets represented as T=0 or T=1 when you learn a signal. You don't need to worry about this when you're building an upgrade.

Ah, thank you.

I do wonder however, if the toggle bit in the signal is working correctly when you use Toadtog with this protocol.

This would be good to know.

Thanks very much again!

[floyd1977]

The Koss KD260 0651.TXT file uses "manual settings". The protocol upgrade included in this file is exactly the same as the protocol that's built into the URC-8811, so it's not necessary.

Thanks for your help! When I use the built-in 0651 protocol, many buttons don't work as expected on the 8811. For example, the pause button doesn't work at all and the play button won't resume play when I'm fast-forwarding or rewinding. The 0651 upgrade I found on this site does assign the correct functions to the buttons. Perhaps it should be labelled 1651?

0651 is not a protocol. 0651 is an upgrade that uses protocol 045. I think Rob and Capn were saying that since protocol 045 in your IR file is identical to the one in your remote, it is extraneous. Removing protocol 045 in your IR file will free up some upgrade space, but I don't think it'll help your problem.

[Bebel]

0651 is not a protocol. 0651 is an upgrade that uses protocol 045. I think Rob and Capn were saying that since protocol 045 in your IR file is identical to the one in your remote, it is extraneous. Removing protocol 045 in your IR file will free up some upgrade space, but I don't think it'll help your problem.

Sorry, yes, I misunderstood that, but I get it now.

[The Robman]

0651 is not a protocol. 0651 is an upgrade that uses protocol 045. I think Rob and Capn were saying that since protocol 045 in your IR file is identical to the one in your remote, it is extraneous. Removing protocol $0045 in your IR file will free up some upgrade space, but I don't think it'll help your problem.

Exactly.