9960 Extender problem

Berc99 · Post by **Berc99** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 1:41 pm

Ok, how do i change that??

/Berc99

pgk · Post by **pgk** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 3:47 pm

The setting for backlight timer is on the "General" tab in IR. It's one of the settings on the right hand list. ("Other Settings")

lemonjive · Post by **lemonjive** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:30 am

danmonroe wrote:Thanks Nils. I can live without the motion sensor but regarding the "Backlight Off Button Action" , I set that to "ignore" and I still have very "weird" behavior". I have to press a key three times before the display turns on and then when it does it still sends the key.

I guess I have the really odd Kameleon...

I am having the same problem, in that I need to press a button three times before the backlight activates, and the third press is transmitted. Any updates to this problem?

Nils_Ekberg · Post by **Nils_Ekberg** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:44 am

lemonjive wrote:
danmonroe wrote:Thanks Nils. I can live without the motion sensor but regarding the "Backlight Off Button Action" , I set that to "ignore" and I still have very "weird" behavior". I have to press a key three times before the display turns on and then when it does it still sends the key.

I guess I have the really odd Kameleon...
I am having the same problem, in that I need to press a button three times before the backlight activates, and the third press is transmitted. Any updates to this problem?

I have now purchased 8 9960's and returned 6 and can't find one that acts like this. Short of having one in my hand that has this problem I don't know what to do.

From the sounds of it this problem is hitting about one out of every 20 or so of the "old/original" models.

don_dude · Post by **don_dude** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:38 pm

danmonroe wrote:Thanks Nils. I can live without the motion sensor but regarding the "Backlight Off Button Action" , I set that to "ignore" and I still have very "weird" behavior". I have to press a key three times before the display turns on and then when it does it still sends the key.

I guess I have the really odd Kameleon...

Sadly, you are not alone. After coming so far, I found that I have the same problem. I LOVE the extender and finally learned all I needed to get many advanced features running, only to discover this..

It really makes the extender nearly useless for me. Motion sensing does not wake up the backlignt. Since "Backlight Off Button Action" is not ignored regardless of the setting, pushing a random button (three times is also required for me) to wake up the backlight always results in sending an undesired code. My family can't deal with that.

Any suggestions? I want to be able to apply what I have done so far. I would buy another 9960 if that would solve this, but I seem to recall reading that the newest models won't work with the extender for other reasons.

I guess I am not that thrilled with the soft-button thing anyway. Can anyone recommend a hard-button alternative?

Don

Nils_Ekberg · Post by **Nils_Ekberg** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:43 pm

Outside of the newer model 9960 the extender motion detection works with 99 out of a 100 of the remotes (make that 98 out of 100 now). It seems that there is no software difference between the ones that work right and the ones that don't so it has to be something with the sensitivity level or something. Since I don't have one that does not work right I can't find a solution.

Is there any chance that you can return the one you have? If you can then you could buy one from Rob that should work for you.

By the way, now that we have IR upgraded for the newer model I will be working on finalizing the RDF and the extender for it also.

don_dude · Post by **don_dude** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:39 am

thanks for the reply. I found a work around that is not too bad. I just put a little round sticker on the "vol-" key with "3X" written on it as a reminder of how to wake up the remote (by pressing three times). This is the only key that I could think of that is active on every device and which, when pressed, won't mess something up. It does change the volume, but not enough to make a difference

mlynch · Post by **mlynch** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:40 pm

Nils_Ekberg wrote:Outside of the newer model 9960 the extender motion detection works with 99 out of a 100 of the remotes (make that 98 out of 100 now). It seems that there is no software difference between the ones that work right and the ones that don't so it has to be something with the sensitivity level or something. Since I don't have one that does not work right I can't find a solution.

So you got someone to dump the ROM for one of these old problem remotes? I would have thought there must be a difference in the ROM... here's how my kameleon acts with the extender:

Backlight Off Action: Ignore - While the remote is alseep (not lit) the first first button press will do nothing, the second button press will light it up and also send the command.

Backlight Off Action: Use - The remote will light up on the first button press and the command will be issued.

I've also noticed the remote will not light up if more than one button is pressed. I'm curious if a "working" kameleon will light up in response to more than one button being pressed. I glanced at the asm source for the extender and it looks like the remote should light up even when more than one key is pressed (I could be wrong, I didn't study the code very long).

I get the same Backlight Motion Action as what has previously been stated (when set to Use) - the remote will not wake up from motion but motion will prevent the remote from sleeping if it is awake (from a button press).

I just don't understand how the Backlight Off Action Ignore setting doesn't work for my remote if the ROM is the same as a working remote... I guess I'll dump the ROM on my remote just to double check this.

edit: I dumped the ROM and sure enough it's the same.

Nils_Ekberg · Post by **Nils_Ekberg** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:19 am

Yup, I have dumped it also and found the same thing. I believe it may be at the hardware level and how it handles the button presses returning different interrupts or something. I just have not figured a way around it and have not had the opportunity to tinker recently.

Oh yeah, it is built into the ROM and the extender to not handle multiple button presses since their is no way to determine which one you really wanted to press.

mlynch · Post by **mlynch** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:16 am

I'm gonna take some time to try and fix this problem... one thing I've noticed in some initial testing is that the call to BacklightOn has no effect... in otherwords, I commented it out and the remote behaves the same.

It appears that the light turns on when a key is pressed that transmits an IR signal (as my device selection keys won't trigger the backlight).

Perhaps some other registers need set for the BacklightOn call to work on these problem remotes?

Nils_Ekberg · Post by **Nils_Ekberg** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:20 am

Your somewhat right on the backlight not processing when no IR signal is sent. If I remember correctly it will activate when a button is processed even if it does not send an IR signal but won't do anything if there is nothing on the button.

Nils_Ekberg · Post by **Nils_Ekberg** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:58 pm

You got me thinking about this again and I don't understand why the second button press turns the light on but not the first unless you have motion detection set to Use and somehow motion is kicking in. I don't have a bad version now since I bought it and returned it after testing. By the way, I had to return 7 before I got one that acted like this.

Help me understand whats going on by doing a few tests for me.

Set the options as follows and let me know what happens with both button presses and motion. When you are testing button press try not to move the remote at all. There is the possibility that a combination of 2 presses and the motion combined sets a different interrupt.

1) Both motion and 1st press should turn the light on and send the 1st signal:
BackLight Off Button Action: Use
Backlight Motion Action: Use

2) 1st press should turn the light on and not send a signal but motion should do nothing:
BackLight Off Button Action: Ignore
Backlight Motion Action: Ignore

3) Motion and 1st press should turn the light on but no signal sent:
BackLight Off Button Action: Ignore
Backlight Motion Action: Use

4) Motion should not turn the light on but 1st press should and also send a signal:
BackLight Off Button Action: Use
Backlight Motion Action: Ignore

I know you understand the above options but I just wanted you to have some sections to reply with so we are both speaking the same language.

Thanks

mlynch · Post by **mlynch** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:53 pm

1) Both motion and 1st press should turn the light on and send the 1st signal:
BackLight Off Button Action: Use
Backlight Motion Action: Use

1st press: light turns on and signal is sent
motion: will not turn on the light but will prevent the light from turning off

2) 1st press should turn the light on and not send a signal but motion should do nothing:
BackLight Off Button Action: Ignore
Backlight Motion Action: Ignore

1st press: nothing (light doesn't turn on, no signal sent)
2nd press: light turns on and signal is sent
motion: no effect

3) Motion and 1st press should turn the light on but no signal sent:
BackLight Off Button Action: Ignore
Backlight Motion Action: Use

1st press (with no motion): nothing (light doesn't turn on, no signal sent, this was a a bit hard to test since the motion sensor is so sensitive, but I have confirmed this)
2nd press (with no motion): light turns on and signal is sent
motion: light will not turn on but will prevent the light from turning off if it is on. Also, any motion before a key press will make the remote light up on the first key press (and the signal will be sent).

4) Motion should not turn the light on but 1st press should and also send a signal:
BackLight Off Button Action: Use
Backlight Motion Action: Ignore

1st press: light turns on and signal is sent
motion: no effect

Like I said in my previous post, the CALL BacklightOn does not actually turn the backlight on, but otherwise the extender is working.

Nils_Ekberg · Post by **Nils_Ekberg** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 2:24 pm

Thanks. Let me digest this a little. Maybe this will trigger something in my mind.

mlynch · Post by **mlynch** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:10 pm

I believe I found it... as I sorta expected from my testing, the problem is with the BacklightOn call being ineffective... I changed it to CALL 01F0 and I've got a properly working extender now. You probably want to test the change on a "non-problem" Kameleon to make sure that call will work on all Kameleons.

Something I also discovered in my testing, when R4D is FF then all buttons will light up (if you make a call to turn on the light)... I assume maybe that's a way to test if the remote is in a reset state?

Anyway, I saw the CALL to 01F0 at 37D3, which gets called when R4D is not FF.

And after all this, I'm not sure I really like the Kameleon... I much prefer my hard button remotes (15-1994 and 8811).