USING LEARNED SIGNALS IN CUSTOM UPGRADE FILES

[Jerbo]

Hi everyone.

When creating a custom upgrade file in KM I am trying to use learned signals. Most of the learned signals (in the IR "learned signals" tab) show one line (#1, protocol, device, sub-device, etc).

For one of the learns, there are 4 lines. Lines 1 and 3 are the same, showing the Denon protocol, device 12, OBC 146, Hex Cmd 49, and EFC of 072.

Lines 2 and 4 are also the same, with the protocol being "Async11:203-213:EF.FF..EF.FF". Device is 255, subdevice is 239, OBC is 255, hex command and EFC are blank. In the "MISC" there is a bunch of Hex (EF FF FF EF, etc).

What does this all mean? How would I use it to incorporate in a KM Upgrade file? Can I just use the information from line 1, and will it work? Or is the signal complicated with numerous sequences and if so, how would I figure out how to enter it in KM?

Many of my other learns have 2 lines, with them being duplicates (just like lines 1 and 3 in my above example). Why do I see 2 lines? Is it a bad or duplicative learn, or do those 2 lines actually impact the IR signal and thus would create a complication in entering the information into KM?

[vickyg2003]

Hi everyone.

When creating a custom upgrade file in KM I am trying to use learned signals. Most of the learned signals (in the IR "learned signals" tab) show one line (#1, protocol, device, sub-device, etc).

For one of the learns, there are 4 lines. Lines 1 and 3 are the same, showing the Denon protocol, device 12, OBC 146, Hex Cmd 49, and EFC of 072.

Lines 2 and 4 are also the same, with the protocol being "Async11:203-213:EF.FF..EF.FF". Device is 255, subdevice is 239, OBC is 255, hex command and EFC are blank. In the "MISC" there is a bunch of Hex (EF FF FF EF, etc).

What does this all mean? How would I use it to incorporate in a KM Upgrade file? Can I just use the information from line 1, and will it work? Or is the signal complicated with numerous sequences and if so, how would I figure out how to enter it in KM?

Many of my other learns have 2 lines, with them being duplicates (just like lines 1 and 3 in my above example). Why do I see 2 lines? Is it a bad or duplicative learn, or do those 2 lines actually impact the IR signal and thus would create a complication in entering the information into KM?

Without seeing the signals, I'd say it is probably a bad learning technique.

If the whole set of signals has the same protocol, just go with that line.

If you want to post the IR file we might be able to tell you what went wrong.

I have a bad learning technique, and often it took me more than one time to get the signal to learn correctly. That's why I bought a widget.

If you relearn the signals and still get weird data, why not post your IR files so we can take a look.

[Jerbo]

sure, but, stupid question, how do I upload my IR file? When I click on "post reply", I don't see any button that would enable me to upload a file. Sorry if it's obvious, but I'm not finding it (could be a tired thing). thanks

[The Robman]

sure, but, stupid question, how do I upload my IR file? When I click on "post reply", I don't see any button that would enable me to upload a file. Sorry if it's obvious, but I'm not finding it (could be a tired thing). thanks

Follow the "File Section" link at the top of this page, then select the "Diagnosis Area" folder, then use the UPLOAD button to upload the file.

Then click on File Section again and scroll down to the Diagnosis Area folder where you'll see a link to your file over to the right. Copy+Paste the URL into this thread.

[Jerbo]

Robman you are too fast. I just realized that and by the time I got back in you had already replied.

OK here is a link to my IR file. Please look at the learned signal for DVD 1S (RS 15-2104 remote). I am confused about lines 2 and 4 with the ASYNC protocol.

Also, if you look at most of my other learns, they are 2 lines with a repeat on both lines (identical). I assume this is not normal and I must have a bad learning technique?

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=8782

[Jerbo]

Hi,

In followup to the learned signals discussion, one of my learns (DVD 2S) uses the Denon-K format. I don't see this in KM as an option. Tried playing around with the denon combo codes and do not get the right result.

I found this:

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewt ... ght=denonk

(please see the 2nd post).

My question -- will this work for my setup and even though I am using KM and not RM? How do I "dump" the upgrade code and upgrade protocol shown in that thread directly (manually) into IR? (What to paste, and where). Thanks again.

[The Robman]

Generally speaking, if all of the buttons come from the same original remote, they should all use the same protocol. Of course, as with any rule, there are exceptions, but it's a good general rule.

Therefore, if you have a button that is producing unusual results, try re-learning it several times to see if the results are consistent.

Chances are good that at least some of the learns will show the same protocol as the rest of the buttons.

ps. I can't look at your IR file from this computer.

[johnsfine]

Can I just use the information from line 1, and will it work?

Correct.

There are lots of reasons for duplication and extra crap in a decode. It is generally correct to take the good part of a decode and ignore the rest.

I looked at your file and except for the Denon-K signal, all the others are ordinary Denon signals device 12. For each signal, you can ignore everything but one Denon device 12 decode line.

one of my learns (DVD 2S) uses the Denon-K format.

It is fairly common for a device to use mostly denon signals but a few Denon-K signals.

I don't recall what support we might have (especially in KM) for mixtures of Denon with Denon-K

In RM, I would generally approach such things by making a helper upgrade for the Denon-K and then defining Denon-K functions in the main upgrade as "external function" which become KeyMoves when the upgrade is brought into IR.EXE.

[Jerbo]

thanks johnsfine.

I think I am good except for the Denon-K code.

There are maybe 3 (if that) of the Denon-K that will make its way onto my JP1 extended remote. As such, I really don't want to use RM as I am familiar with KM and time is not on my side right now.

What options do I have to get these couple of Denon-K signals on my extended remote using either KM or directly inside of IR w/ keymoves, etc. Obviously I can learn these signals, but when I implement the extender I lose the learned signals. Could I do a keymove inside of IR on the learned signals... and not lose it once I activate the extender?

I don't think I can use KM, as the Denon-K is not supported, and trying various combinations of "Denon" or Denon Combo (even tried Kasieyko) don't seem to work.

[vickyg2003]

My question -- will this work for my setup and even though I am using KM and not RM? How do I "dump" the upgrade code and upgrade protocol shown in that thread directly (manually) into IR? (What to paste, and where).

The signal in the other thread was a 4.1, your's is a 4.3 So you'll need a new setup code. Looks like you are in for more learning.

I'm unfamilar with how to fill in the Device Subdevice for the DenonK protocol. Its never a good idea to copy an upgrade if its not specifically for your remote.

You'll probably need to add RM to your list of new things to learn, since KM doesn't handle the denon K protocol. You'll need to use RM to compute the HEX for that 711 obc.

Your Dennon K signals will be a helper upgrade.

[vickyg2003]

Well guess what, you CAN use the device/protocol that you found in the other thread. In RM we fill in the the device with 4, and leave oem 1 and oem 2 blank. We fill in z with 3 and the obc with 711 yields the
hex = 31 CB

Use that hex to setup your keymove.

[Jerbo]

really? So for a maximum of 3 signals I need to learn a whole new interface. I personally love excel and have never had success with anything Java (mainly because it does not run stably on my machine).

Not sure where I go from this point.

Is it really true that there is no way within IR to just "copy" the learned signal to another key? I understand that without an actual "device code" (which doesn't exist without creating an upgrade file which I cannot do with KM) I cannot use the keymoves tab in IR to accomplish this. I'm just looking to see if there might be alternatives other than learning RM.

If I were to tackle RM, is the output process the same; i.e. "device upgrade code" and "protocol code" that I copy & paste into the respective IR tabs? If so, is it possible that one of the forum experts could create the code for me? My remote is the 15-2104, and I am in need of Denon-K code for OBC 711, which is device 4, subdevice 3, hex command "CB", and an EFC of 084. Perhaps I need to post this request somewhere else...

(Side note: Believe me, it's not that I don't want to learn RM or refuse to learn it, it's just that I'm already spending tons of time on this (which is fun, but is really pissing off the wife & kids and I wasn't planning on an RM learning curve to go along with all the other customizations i need to do... just for 1 key! (Maybe i need to reconsider the use of that one button in my setup...))

thanks for reading my rant...

[Jerbo]

Well guess what, you CAN use the device/protocol that you found in the other thread. In RM we fill in the the device with 4, and leave oem 1 and oem 2 blank. We fill in z with 3 and the obc with 711 yields the
hex = 31 CB

Use that hex to setup your keymove.

I wish I had read this before posting my rant....
Could you provide me with some quick instructions? I take the information from the other thread that I found, and which parts do I alter and where do I paste it?

Then, on the keymoves tab, do I simply just input 31 CB in the "EFC/Hex Cmd" box (after toggling the radio button to Hex Cmd?) when I setup my keymove? What would I use as the setup code?

If this works, I will be forever indebted... THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP!

[Jerbo]

Well guess what, you CAN use the device/protocol that you found in the other thread. In RM we fill in the the device with 4, and leave oem 1 and oem 2 blank. We fill in z with 3 and the obc with 711 yields the
hex = 31 CB

Use that hex to setup your keymove.

NEVERMIND MY LAST QUESTION. I FIGURED IT OUT.

Next time before thinking out loud in a post I will just try it first. I got it to work and now don't have to learn RM (yet).

Thanks Vickyg2003 for supplying me with the info, it was very helpful and saved me no less than several hours (or days) of time!

[vickyg2003]

Yes I see we cross posted.

Believe me, it's not that I don't want to learn RM or refuse to learn it, it's just that I'm already spending tons of time on this (which is fun, but is really pissing off the wife & kids and I wasn't planning on an RM learning curve to go along with all the other customizations i need to do... just for 1 key!

Oh I hear that. My husband hates my JP1 hobby!


Copy this keyless setup code from the word Upgrade through the word End and add it as a device upgrade


Upgrade Code 0 = 07 DC (Cable/2012) (RM v1.98beta7)
CD 00 01 D5 B3 FD
End

You'll also need this Protocol Executor. Again copy everything from the word Upgrade through the word End

Upgrade protocol 0 = 00 CD (S3C80) Denon-K (RM v1.98beta7)
45 91 32 8B 12 8F 45 08 08 00 DA 00 C6 00 DA 02
7B 90 C9 06 D0 03 54 E4 05 08 B4 06 08 B4 07 08
20 11 8D 01 46
End

Then add a keymove to Cable 2012
Simply input 31 CB in the "EFC/Hex Cmd" box (after toggling the radio button to Hex Cmd?)


You really should have a look at RM. It is continually improving.