RMIR: Prototype IR function in RM

xnappo · Post by **xnappo** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:03 pm

Capn Trips wrote:I got the impression that Greg was pooh-pooh-ing my argumentation ("Fix the RDFs"), and I went back to using IR because it allowed me to do what I needed with the confusion that has reigned regarding the Kaseikyo and Sharp DVD family of protocols and some remotes.

Maybe as others pay more attention to RMIR, we can influence the changes that are indeed needed.

Well, while I do think it would be nice to be able to see the keymoves in a debug capacity, the particular problem you are referencing IS in fact an RDF issue that really should be fixed.

Have you tried the latest RDFs with RM-IR?

Thanks,
xnappo

gfb107 · Post by **gfb107** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:02 pm

Maybe I wasn't clear. I am not opposed to adding features for advanced users.

I am opposed to doing it just because there's a bug somewhere else.
When the initial/main motivation for a suggested feature is a way to get around broken or missing function, I will refuse to implement it until the other problem is resolved and we can reevaluate the need to for it.

I didn't mean to give the impression I was dismissing the idea out-of-hand.

If there is consensus that a feature is needed, I am happy to work with the other members to find the best way to fit it into RMIR.

The primary difficulty is that there's a long list of missing and broken function in addition to the many possible advanced features.

My opinion is that the missing and broken function need to be addressed before the advanced features.

BTW, it is possible, although not simple, to find out how many bytes a device upgrade uses in the device upgrade section and the keymove section, and whether or not it uses a protocol upgrade. Simply edit the device upgrade and look at the Output tab.

Post by **The Robman** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:50 pm

I agree that for most users, it's better to keep things simple, so in that regard I like what you're doing with RMIR, but there's a skill in finding the right balance between keeping it simple for the newbies while still giving the experts the tools they need to do what experts do.

It's not urgent that RMIR satisfy the experts' needs because IR already does that, but then again, as long as we keep using IR we won't be shaking out RMIR so we probably won't be able to contribute too many new ideas for it.

Like I said earlier, one of the main reasons that I use IR is to see learned signals for a potentially new protocol, and I need all the tools that are in IR for that.

If I did have a need to re-organize the IR file for my remote, I don't think RMIR is at a place where it would be useful to me yet because of all the stuff that it hides.

So, bottom line, it's looking like a very good tool for the general JP1 population, but it's probably not ready for the experts yet.

gfb107 · Post by **gfb107** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:06 pm

Rob, are you using the latest version of RMIR? This is something I've fixed relatively recently.

I've tried this scenario adding a number of different device upgrades and RMIR is always automatically changing the remote. There are still problems with the memory usage not updating correctly, but the remote is changed automatically, and not being warned about running out of room. I even get the "Lost Function Assignment" pop-up, although unfortunately it is hidden behind the modal Device Upgrade Editor.

The Robman wrote:Here's how you can re-create it...

1. Open any IR or RMIR file (I used FromRob.IR from the IR zip)
2. Go to Devices and click NEW
3. In RM, click LOAD and select any RMDU file
4. Check the Output panel to see that it has keymoves, if it doesn't add some
5. Verify that the select remote in RM is different to the remote in RMIR
6. Click OK
7. Back in RMIR, make a note of the available keymove memory, then go to General tab and assign the upgrade to a device button and verify that the keymove memory didn't change.
8. In RMIR, go back to the Devices tab and click EDIT on the upgrade that you added, then in RM verify that it still shows the "other" remote.

Now, repeat the above only this time in step 5 make sure that the correct remote is selected, then in step 7 you will see the keymove memory reduce when the keymoves are added behind the scene.

Post by **The Robman** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:16 pm

I thought I was, but I'll check tomorrow.

gfb107 · Post by **gfb107** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:50 pm

I've built RemoteMaster.v1.99preview1.zip for you guys to try out.

It includes:
- Setup.bat create entries in the Start Menu for RM, RMIR, the Readme and Tutorial, as well as associations for .rmir and .rmdu files.
- Prompt to assign device upgrades that contain keymoves to a device button when not already assigned to a device button. Memory usage will update correctly and a warning will be shown if available memory is exceeded.
- Make sure the Lost Function Assignment warning gets focus when displayed.

Post by **mathdon** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:49 am

I am in the process of registering to join the RemoteMaster project. I offer my experience to others in case it may assist anyone else who has started on this tortuous path and given up along the route.

1. I go to File Section/Tools/Main/RM - Remote Master and click on the "Click here" Website link.

2. I see the sentence "To learn how to participate in the development of RemoteMaster, please first visit the Getting Started document in the Docs sections of the SourceForge page." I click on that "SourceForge page" hyperlink.

3. This gives a page rather confusingly called "ControlRemote". Is that an old name for Remote Master? Anyway, the page does not contain a Docs section. It does have four tabs, Summary / Files / Support / Develop. I click the Develop tab as the most likely.

4. The page is still called ControlRemote, but now the right hand side has a box called "Links You May Need". One is "Send a request to join this project." I'm still not sure this is the same project as RemoteMaster.

5. I now get a table of developers, above which is a sentence "If you would like to contribute to this project by becoming a developer, contact one of the project admins, designated in bold text below." There aren't any names in bold text, but there are four names in blue with a spanner against their username.

6. I click on the e-mail address for Greg given there. This gives a page that asks me to log in with a SourceForge account or an OpenID. I don't have either of these.

7. I see that there is a link at the top of the page, that has also been present on the other pages, that says "Create account". Perhaps I should have thought, earlier on, that might be necessary, but I didn't. I am, after all, attempting "To learn how to participate in the development of RemoteMaster" and I thought I would be led through the necessary steps, including that one at the appropriate time.

8. I have created an account, settling for the username "mathsdon" since it told me that "mathdon" was already in use. Repeat from step 1. Send message to Greg.

Somehow I feel that the route could have been made a little clearer!

__________________
Graham

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:01 am

Bug report - RMIR not recognizing ToadTog Device upgrade:This is my current family room setup on an Atlas OCAP remote using the extender. When I open it using RMIR, I get a pop-up alert that "No device type alias found for device upgrade VCR/1800. The device upgrade could not be imported and was discarded."

This image is currently resident in my remote, and when I try to download it from the remote into RMIR, I get the same alert.

I have the latest revs of all of the RDFs, but this sounds like an RDF problem to me. Regardless, it works in IR, but not in RMIR.

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:11 am

Bug report - inability to install extender: How does one install an extender using RMIR? I have not found a way to do this.

I can OPEN or DOWNLOAD an extended file that pre-exists, but cannot CONVERT a file in RMIR. For the JP1 remotes, this posed little challenge, since the extender packages usually include a bare-bones extender IR file that the user can open and start adding upgrades etc. However with the JP1.3 remotes most extender packages recommend: DOWNLOAD from the remote (which uses the UNextended signature) and then use EXTINSTALL (which is called from within IR) to convert the image to an extended one. Apparently this is due to some hidden code areas in these remtoes that can get messed up if one tried to upload a generic image.

Regardless, I would suggest that integrated extender installation in RMIR be considered as a relatively high priority feature (and hopefully will not be relegated to the "only experts need this" file).

gfb107 · Post by **gfb107** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:16 am

Some more info for folks interested in helping with RMIR development.

I use the Eclipse IDE for Java Developers (http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/)

Install the subclipse plugin: http://subclipse.tigris.org/servlets/Pr ... eID=p4wYuA

Checkout the RM source from within Eclipse:

File -> Import
SVN / Checkout Projects from SVN
Next
Create a new repository location
Next
https://svn.code.sf.net/p/controlremote/code/trunk
Next
Select "km"
Finish

To do a build, right-click on build.xml and select "Run As" -> "Ant Build"

All of the RM/RMIR screens are actually hand-coded, which sounds daunting, but isn't really that bad. I've never found a UI builder that generated code I was happy with.

All the Java source for RM/RMIR is in com\hifiremote\jp1
Someday I'll do some refactoring to break things out into sub-packages to organize the code better.

You don't actually need a sourceforge account or to join the controlremote project until you want to commit code changes.

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:21 am

Bug report/Feature request - File>New: You've acknowledged that there is currently no facility to allow creating a RMIR file from scratch. One must either start with a download or a pre-existing IR or RMIR file. This is a pretty severe limitation if one does not have the remote in one's hand that one is trying to prepare an image for (cross-town in-laws, for a random example that bears no resemblance to reality

)

Request elevating the priority to implement this capability sooner rather than later.

gfb107 · Post by **gfb107** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:26 am

Capn Trips wrote:Bug report - RMIR not recognizing ToadTog Device upgrade:This is my current family room setup on an Atlas OCAP remote using the extender. When I open it using RMIR, I get a pop-up alert that "No device type alias found for device upgrade VCR/1800. The device upgrade could not be imported and was discarded."

This image is currently resident in my remote, and when I try to download it from the remote into RMIR, I get the same alert.

Parsing a download uses the same code as loading an IR file, so you should see the same alert.

I have the latest revs of all of the RDFs, but this sounds like an RDF problem to me. Regardless, it works in IR, but not in RMIR.

Yes, this is an RDF problem. See http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewt ... 3492#73492

gfb107 · Post by **gfb107** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:02 am

The Robman wrote:I don't think RMIR is at a place where it would be useful to me yet because of all the stuff that it hides.

In many cases RMIR isn't hiding stuff, it's just managing it differently and exposing it in different places.

Two examples come to mind:

Protocol upgrades. RMIR automatically ensures that the required protocol upgrade gets loaded, and doesn't show those protocol upgrades in the Protocols tab.
Keymoves. RMIR keeps keymoves associated with a device upgrade as part of the device upgrade, and doesn't show them in the keymoves tab.

In both cases, stuff is being managed differently than IR, and appear hidden. But both can be seen by looking at the individual device upgrades, specifically on the Output tab.

So, bottom line, it's looking like a very good tool for the general JP1 population, but it's probably not ready for the experts yet.

Certainly not.

Post by **mathdon** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:25 am

gfb107 wrote:You don't actually need a sourceforge account or to join the controlremote project until you want to commit code changes.

Nevertheless, I hope my request to join the project will be acted upon, now that I have got around to requesting it.
_______________
Graham

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:26 am

It's not just a question of management, Greg, it's a question of usability. Example: I have a keymove on a button in a device upgrade. I want to clone that same keymove into other devices. In IR this is trivial, in RMIR, I have to manually create that keymove again since it's not available to view/edit on the Keymoves Tab. Multiply that by a bunch of these and it becomes pretty tedious.