URC9960 Kameleon BETA Extender 1 & 2

ninjatech · Post by **ninjatech** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 9:43 pm

Sorry to say the motion sensor is still not working.

The backlight does turn off now when TV is the selected device though.

I am going to reprogram everything (is there a fast way to copy my old macros??), and see what else I can find.

I am really curious if I am the only one with this backlight problem. I bought my dad one of these for christmas, and he doesnt need JP1 functionality, I will try to get it over here to test his. If his works, I will switch them.

Edit: I just thought of soemthing that might be useful to you. The sensor DOES work to keep the backlight activated, as well as when the light is starting to fade out. It only does not work when the remote is 'asleep'

Nils_Ekberg · Post by **Nils_Ekberg** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:41 am

ninjatech wrote:Sorry to say the motion sensor is still not working.

Oh well, we will keep trying

ninjatech wrote:The backlight does turn off now when TV is the selected device though.

That's good to hear

ninjatech wrote:I am going to reprogram everything (is there a fast way to copy my old macros??), and see what else I can find.

Yes, save your IR file as aname like "URC9960 In" and use it as input to the Exinstall program. The Install docs tell you how to do that.

ninjatech wrote:I am really curious if I am the only one with this backlight problem. I bought my dad one of these for christmas, and he doesnt need JP1 functionality, I will try to get it over here to test his. If his works, I will switch them.

I am really curious also. That is why I keep asking others for confirmation one way or the other. Be interesting to find out if it is just some quirk with yours.

ninjatech wrote:Edit: I just thought of soemthing that might be useful to you. The sensor DOES work to keep the backlight activated, as well as when the light is starting to fade out. It only does not work when the remote is 'asleep'

Thats a good sign. It may just mean that I am not coming out of idle mode correctly. I will look at it.

Thanks for all your help and patience with this.

kenyarnall · Post by **kenyarnall** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:10 am

Nils_Ekberg wrote:
ninjatech wrote:I am really curious also. That is why I keep asking others for confirmation one way or the other. Be interesting to find out if it is just some quirk with yours.
I've installed beta 2. The backlight timer seems to work for awhile (I have the value set to 50). Right now, though, the light is on and it's not going off.

I pressed some buttons and set the remote down again, and the backlight went off. It seems to transmit the first keypress when I wake it up that way. stays on for 6-7 seconds, then goes off. I haven't gotten it to freeze on again.

...okay, I've tested some more. Keypresses aren't reliably sensed --- Sometimes I press a key and nothing is transmitted. If I wait a moment, the key might work.

The backlight will go off as I'm using the remote. It doesn't seem as if keypresses are resetting the timer. Maybe this is related to the above?

I put a simple macro on my HT key as an experiment. It is

X_TV; Power; X_Cancel; X_AUDIO; Power; X_CANCEL; X_CBL; Power; X_CANCEL

I sprinkled device choices (M_CBL V_AUDIO etc) between these three powerups as well, because I thought I was having timing problems --- not all three devices ever power up --- sometimes one, sometimes 2, sometimes none of them come on. I think now this might be related to the unregistered keystrokes problem from above.

Nils, if you want me to, I can upload my ir file. Just let me know.

Ken

Nils_Ekberg · Post by **Nils_Ekberg** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 11:15 am

kenyarnall wrote:I've installed beta 2. The backlight timer seems to work for awhile (I have the value set to 50). Right now, though, the light is on and it's not going off.
I pressed some buttons and set the remote down again, and the backlight went off. It seems to transmit the first keypress when I wake it up that way. stays on for 6-7 seconds, then goes off. I haven't gotten it to freeze on again.

The extender likes to be set in increments of 7.6 so setting at 50 may or may not be a problem. Try using the default 76 (10 seconds) or half of that at 38 and see if it makes any difference other then time. Also, I can ignore the first keypress that wakes up the remote just like the original. That may be better, what do you think?

Just for my piece of mind, motion without pressing a button does turn your backlight on, Correct?

kenyarnall wrote:...okay, I've tested some more. Keypresses aren't reliably sensed --- Sometimes I press a key and nothing is transmitted. If I wait a moment, the key might work.
The backlight will go off as I'm using the remote. It doesn't seem as if keypresses are resetting the timer. Maybe this is related to the above?

These two are probably related. I noticed that if you are moving the remote the same time you press a key sometimes the keypress is ignored because I am processing the motion detection first. I find that if I hold it perfectly still the buttons never fail. I am experimenting with a change to fix that now just can't test it until I get home.

kenyarnall wrote:I put a simple macro on my HT key as an experiment. It is

X_TV; Power; X_Cancel; X_AUDIO; Power; X_CANCEL; X_CBL; Power; X_CANCEL

I sprinkled device choices (M_CBL V_AUDIO etc) between these three powerups as well, because I thought I was having timing problems --- not all three devices ever power up --- sometimes one, sometimes 2, sometimes none of them come on. I think now this might be related to the unregistered keystrokes problem from above.

This is probably related the the motion vs. keypress problem also.

kenyarnall wrote:Nils, if you want me to, I can upload my ir file. Just let me know.

No need, thanks

ninjatech · Post by **ninjatech** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 2:38 pm

I was thinking... would it be easier if it no longer detected motion once activated, now that we can set the backlight time?

I don't know how it all works, but if when the backlight is dimming off is a different state than when the backlight is on, maybe you detection only need to occur at that point (as well as when it's asleep). I say this because I have been having the same keypresses being ignored issue.

It's crazy how much more you have to deal with because of the backlight and sensor...

Nils_Ekberg · Post by **Nils_Ekberg** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 3:27 pm

ninjatech wrote:I was thinking... would it be easier if it no longer detected motion once activated, now that we can set the backlight time?...

Conceptualy we could ignore the motion and only turn the light on when a button is pressed but that does not mimic the original remote. I think we need to make it as close as possible or it will not be accepted. After it is fixed completely then I will add a software user choice for people who don't care about using the motion detection.

ninjatech wrote:I don't know how it all works, but if when the backlight is dimming off is a different state than when the backlight is on, maybe you detection only need to occur at that point (as well as when it's asleep). I say this because I have been having the same keypresses being ignored issue....

The only difference is that when the remote is not active it goes into a IDLE state and sets the timeout. If nothing happens (motion or key) the timeout occurs and the light is turned off. I think I may have it fixed but won't know for sure until I get home and try it. I actually added 3 possible ways around it and need to test each one.

ninjatech wrote:It's crazy how much more you have to deal with because of the backlight and sensor...

I don't actually have a problem with the backlight itself. The issue is the motion sensor. In a hard remote even with a backlight you only need to deal with key presses since you can already see the buttons when the lights are out. Key Presses alone are easy but having to test for both key and motion and doing something different for each is what is causing the problem. Like I said, I think I have a fix so cross your fingers for me.

kenyarnall · Post by **kenyarnall** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 3:28 pm

ninjatech wrote:I was thinking... would it be easier if it no longer detected motion once activated, now that we can set the backlight time?

I don't know how it all works, but if when the backlight is dimming off is a different state than when the backlight is on, maybe you detection only need to occur at that point (as well as when it's asleep). I say this because I have been having the same keypresses being ignored issue.

It's crazy how much more you have to deal with because of the backlight and sensor...

I agree with this --- It seems like the right state machine for the backlight is something like:

1 - if the backlight is off, wait for motion or a button press. When either one happens, turn the light on, and move to the next state.

2 - process key presses, ignoring motion. If the timeout passes since the last keypress, turn off the light and switch to state 1. Make sure to reset the timer with each keypress.

Ken

Nils_Ekberg · Post by **Nils_Ekberg** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:25 pm

kenyarnall wrote:I agree with this --- It seems like the right state machine for the backlight is something like:

1 - if the backlight is off, wait for motion or a button press. When either one happens, turn the light on, and move to the next state.

2 - process key presses, ignoring motion. If the timeout passes since the last keypress, turn off the light and switch to state 1. Make sure to reset the timer with each keypress.

Ken

I also agree with this and in fact that is the way it is coded. The problem is that the motion interupts come fast and furious even when a key is pressed. The difficulty is that both the key and motion interupts are in the same flag. Thats why holding the remote perfectly still when pressing a button allows the key presses to work as designed. I just haven't found the right combination to turn off the extra motion interupts. I am working on it even as we speak.

Nils_Ekberg · Post by **Nils_Ekberg** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 9:59 am

I have uploaded the Beta 3 Extender 1 for the URC9960 to the jp1 group file section URC9960 Extender Beta 3

I uploaded this as Beta 3 since I believe I have solved the reset problem. If it is OK I will change it to an official release in a few days. I will also start on a few other things like adding the ability to light up the HT icon and mimicing the original remote screen on device choice. NOTE: Using "Scroll" in device selection macros will let you pick your own primary screen.

Thanks to Ninja and Ken for pointing me in the right direction on the motion interrupts. Although the way they suggested was something I was already trying to do it made me think about where the enables and disables should be. I moved the motion disable and it seems to have cured all of the problems with the backlight timer and lost button presses.

Ninja, I am still not sure if this cures your problem with the motion detection not turning the backlight on so let me know. Do me a favor and look inside the battery case for a white label and tell me the revision number following the URC9960.

kenyarnall · Post by **kenyarnall** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 10:38 am

Nils_Ekberg wrote:I uploaded this as Beta 3 since I believe I have solved the reset problem

Very preliminary results indicate that this works better --- the backlight seemed to work correctly.

I didn't get a chance to test my macro. Not sure where the bug exists, but the reason I couldn't test my macro was that some keymoves didn't get translated correctly when I ran extinstall.exe. Moves that were on Phantom1/Phantom2 showed up as Phantom2/Key103. Is this an RDF file mismatch, or something?

(that and the fact that my wife came back home. I think it disturbs her when I do evil things to the remote...

)

I think the signal duration for my DishPVR is borderline too short; every now and then a keypress is ignored by the device (but the transmit animation occurs). Is it possible to lengthen the signal duration?

I'll be able to do more testing later today.

If it is OK I will change it to an official release in a few days. I will also start on a few other things like adding the ability to light up the HT icon and mimicing the original remote screen on device choice.

That would be great! This extender will make all sorts of cool things possible with this remote.

Thanks to Ninja and Ken for pointing me in the right direction on the motion interrupts. Although the way they suggested was something I was already trying to do it made me think about where the enables and disables should be. I moved the motion disable and it seems to have cured all of the problems with the backlight timer and lost button presses.

Thank YOU for all your work on this. Wish I could be of more help.

Ken

kenyarnall · Post by **kenyarnall** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 10:43 am

Moves that were on Phantom1/Phantom2 showed up as Phantom2/Key103. Is this an RDF file mismatch, or something?

I just looked at the two RDFs, and indeed the phantom buttons have different hex codes. I don't know enough to judge what this means, but it seems the culprit in my keymove problem.

Ken

Nils_Ekberg · Post by **Nils_Ekberg** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:00 am

That was a warning I made earlier about double checking the macros and keymoves because I had to rename some buttons like phantoms.

kenyarnall · Post by **kenyarnall** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:02 am

Nils_Ekberg wrote:That was a warning I made earlier about double checking the macros and keymoves because I had to rename some buttons like phantoms.

I missed that --- sorry!

Ken

Nils_Ekberg · Post by **Nils_Ekberg** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:09 am

No problem.

Sorry about the short response. I am playing scrabble with my wife.

Glad to hear it is working better, keep me posted.

Thanks

Nils_Ekberg · Post by **Nils_Ekberg** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:17 am

By the way Ken, there is a wat to lengthen the signal by modifying the protocol but first make sure it not related to macro speed. Try adding a pause. If it is not in a macro then we can look at the device protocol.