Having trouble with Sony Bravia TV and URC-8090b01 remote

tfischer · Post by **tfischer** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:06 pm

Hi all,

Trying to get our new Bravia KDL-46VL130 to work with my old URC-8090b01. Note that the 46VL130 is essentially the exact same tv as the KDL-46v3000

I'm using the "Sony KDL-40V3000/46V3000" file, which uses the Sony Combo 12/15/20 protocol.

What I'm seeing is everything with "Device 1" (Sony 12) works, and any other device does not.

Note that the Sony 12/15/20 protocol requires an upgrade in my remote, but I'm using it successfully with my STR-DB940 receiver, so I don't think that's the issue.

Any thoughts?

-Tim

mr_d_p_gumby · Post by **mr_d_p_gumby** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:06 am

When I load that upgrade in KM and change the remote to the URC-8090b01, it gives the mesasge:

Code: Select all

P8/740 remotes cannot handle upgrades greater than 50 bytes.  Please remove 12 button assignments.

It looks like all the buttons within the first part of the upgrade are using device 1, so maybe the remote is ignoring the rest of the upgrade past 50 bytes.

tfischer · Post by **tfischer** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:35 am

mr_d_p_gumby wrote:When I load that upgrade in KM and change the remote to the URC-8090b01, it gives the mesasge:
Code: Select all
P8/740 remotes cannot handle upgrades greater than 50 bytes.  Please remove 12 button assignments.
It looks like all the buttons within the first part of the upgrade are using device 1, so maybe the remote is ignoring the rest of the upgrade past 50 bytes.

Thanks for the info. I'm using RemoteMaster, since I don't use Excel...

I'm pretty much a beginner at this JP1 stuff (I've owned the remote for most of a decade, and my jp1 interface for more than 2 years, but I haven't done much with the JP1 programming...) As such, I don't even know what a "P8/740" remote means... I'd be happy to strip down some unused keys to make it less than 50 bytes, but how can I tell (in RemoteMaster) how long the upgrade is (other than counting bytes in the output window)? I tried removing some function assignments from the function tab, but that didn't decrease the number of bytes in the output...

Thanks!

-Tim

gfb107 · Post by **gfb107** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:52 am

You have to reduce the number of functions assigned to buttons, not the number of defined functions, which is what you did.
You do that on the Buttons or Layout tabs.

RM puts 16 bytes on each line on the output panel, so 3 lines is 48 bytes.

tfischer · Post by **tfischer** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:03 pm

gfb107 wrote:You have to reduce the number of functions assigned to buttons, not the number of defined functions, which is what you did.
You do that on the Buttons or Layout tabs.

RM puts 16 bytes on each line on the output panel, so 3 lines is 48 bytes.

My Amp/tuner upgrade for my STR-DB940 is about as long (> 50 bytes) and works fine... If I pared down to < 50 bytes I wouldn't be able to assign functions to half the buttons on the remote...

What is a p8/740 remote? Are we certain that my URC-8090b01 is such a beast?

Another data point: If I create a new, blank RemoteMaster file, and download from my remote, all the bytes from the >50 byte devices come through as expected. I'd think if there was a limit, they might get truncated or something?

Thanks much for spending time on this... I'd really like to get it working with my upgraded system...

-Tim

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:50 pm

tfischer wrote:What is a p8/740 remote? Are we certain that my URC-8090b01 is such a beast?

Look at this chart. It lists all of the known UEIC=produced JP1/JP1.x remotes and their processors (It may not have the NEWEST models, but your 8090 is on there.

Over the years, UEIC has used any of several different processors in their remotes. Amongst the processors used in the JP1 remotes are the Samsung S3C80; S3C80+; Mitsubishi P8-740; Motorola 68HC05.

Each model of remote (for the most part) uses just one of these processors. Every 8090 seen to date (and they aren't making any new ones) uses the P8-740, which has the known limitations described above.

The JP1.1, 1.2 and 1.3 use yet other different processors.

tfischer · Post by **tfischer** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:36 pm

Capn Trips wrote:
tfischer wrote:What is a p8/740 remote? Are we certain that my URC-8090b01 is such a beast?
Look at this chart. It lists all of the known UEIC=produced JP1/JP1.x remotes and their processors (It may not have the NEWEST models, but your 8090 is on there.

Over the years, UEIC has used any of several different processors in their remotes. Amongst the processors used in the JP1 remotes are the Samsung S3C80; S3C80+; Mitsubishi P8-740; Motorola 68HC05.

Each model of remote (for the most part) uses just one of these processors. Every 8090 seen to date (and they aren't making any new ones) uses the P8-740, which has the known limitations described above.

The JP1.1, 1.2 and 1.3 use yet other different processors.

Thanks for the info. I'll try stripping the file down to < 50 bytes and see if that fixes it, but I'm still confused why my other upgrade seems to work, and only things that aren't Device 1 are not working in this case (of course, if things get sorted by device number internally, that might explain it...

-Tim

Mark Pierson · Post by **Mark Pierson** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:05 pm

tfischer wrote:I'm still confused why my other upgrade seems to work

You might want to upload your saved IR file in the Diagnosis area and post a link to it here.

mr_d_p_gumby · Post by **mr_d_p_gumby** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:50 pm

I don't have an explaination for why your other upgrade seems to work; maybe we can see why after you post your IR file. I do know that the remote has to copy the upgrade from external storage in the EEPROM chip to it's internal memory, and in the case of these remotes, it only copies the first 50 bytes of an upgrade. (And yes, this does fall into the "what were they thinking" category!)

This limitation is making things more difficult in this case because you are using what we call a "two-byte" protocol (Sony 12/15/20 combo). Each function requires two bytes, so you can only fit half as many buttons into a 50-byte upgrade.

What might make more sense would be to use the standard Sony 12/15 protocol for the device 1 commands, and then create a dummy Sony 12/15 upgrade for the device 164 commands. (A dummy upgrade is one where no buttons are assigned.) You would then use keymoves based on the dummy 164 upgrade for the (presumably) fewer buttons that need the device 164 functions.

tfischer · Post by **tfischer** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:29 pm

mr_d_p_gumby wrote:What might make more sense would be to use the standard Sony 12/15 protocol for the device 1 commands, and then create a dummy Sony 12/15 upgrade for the device 164 commands. (A dummy upgrade is one where no buttons are assigned.) You would then use keymoves based on the dummy 164 upgrade for the (presumably) fewer buttons that need the device 164 functions.

That sounds promising. Could you go into a little more detail on how to do this?

I will try to get my IR file uploaded as well -- I'm not where I can do that at this moment.

Thanks!
-Tim

mr_d_p_gumby · Post by **mr_d_p_gumby** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:34 am

tfischer wrote:That sounds promising. Could you go into a little more detail on how to do this?

The Sony 12/15 protocol is what we call a "mini-combo" in that it supports two device numbers. You could create an upgrade, for example TV/1000, using the device 1 and device 164 commands, assign them to buttons, and assign that setup code to the TV button. You'd then create another dummy upgrade, for example TV/1001, with devices 151 and 119. You would assign those functions to buttons using kemoves based on TV/1001. That leaves only one function 'dmex' which uses device 26. If you really need that function, then you would have to make a second dummy upgrade for device 26 and assign it to a button with a keymove..

tfischer · Post by **tfischer** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:13 am

mr_d_p_gumby wrote:
tfischer wrote:That sounds promising. Could you go into a little more detail on how to do this?
The Sony 12/15 protocol is what we call a "mini-combo" in that it supports two device numbers. You could create an upgrade, for example TV/1000, using the device 1 and device 164 commands, assign them to buttons, and assign that setup code to the TV button. You'd then create another dummy upgrade, for example TV/1001, with devices 151 and 119. You would assign those functions to buttons using kemoves based on TV/1001. That leaves only one function 'dmex' which uses device 26. If you really need that function, then you would have to make a second dummy upgrade for device 26 and assign it to a button with a keymove..

Excellent! Thanks for the detailed help. So I can do keymoves from a device even if it's not assigned to a "mode" button (or whatever the TV/AMP/CD/etc buttons are called)? I'll have to play with that some more tonight when I'm home from work.

-Tim

tfischer · Post by **tfischer** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:13 pm

Success! I put most the functions under TV, the missing ones under CBL (set up as TV) and moved them to TV.

But is there a way I can do this without burning up my "CBL" button?

Thanks!
-Tim

Evan_s · Post by **Evan_s** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:29 pm

There shouldn't be any reason to assign your second upgrade to the cable device or any other device. If RM or KM is generating key moves for you automatically you can just change the keys that are used in the upgrade or change the device type so it doesn't need to generate key moves. You can still setup a key move referencing a specific upgrade and key with out that upgrade assigned to anything.

Mark Pierson · Post by **Mark Pierson** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:11 pm

tfischer wrote:But is there a way I can do this without burning up my "CBL" button?

All that's required for a "dummy" upgrade is the protocol details (protocol name and device parameters). No functions need to be defined not do any buttons have to be assigned. The resulting device upgrade code will be very small. For example, the "dummy" upgrade for Sony 12/15, devices 151 and 119 would be:

Upgrade Code 0 = 23 E9 (TV/1001)
CA 00 01 E9 EE C0
End

After this gets copied over to IR, all you need to do is create the keymoves in IR's Key Moves tab bound to the TV device and the button of your choice, then specify TV/1001 as the Device Type and Setup Code, and enter the EFC/Hex Cmd. TV/1001 does not need to be assigned to any device button on the General tab, it just needs to be loaded in the remote.