another device key on urc9910?

[km]

Is it possible to have more than 8 device keys on a urc9910? I see in ir a list of "db-" keys,but don't know what they are.

[vickyg2003]

Are you familiar with the multiplexor special protocol? This allows you to change the 4 digit setup code on the fly.

Are you aware that you can set up keymoves from for a device that is not one of your 8 device setups?
Example, if you wanted to control your heater, you might want to do keymoves to your PIP keys in Aux mode. You won't have to have a device key dedicated to your heater. You Aux could still be your third DVR or whatever, but if your PIP keys in that mode would send signals to your heater.

[km]

Actually, I'm not familiar with the multiplexor special protocol. Can you suggest a good reference.

Let me elaborate on my issue. I have serveral Tivo's using up different device keys. Do I need to use a multiplexor special protocol to consolidate them and change the unit code?

[vickyg2003]

With a multiplexor, all the keys that are controlled by the setupcode change, with the press of a button.

However keymoves are static.

So you could assign a keymove to
Shift-1: changes the setup code to tivo1
Shift-2: changes the setup code to tivo2
Shift-3: changes the setupcode to tivo3


I learned about them when I tried an extender. Most multi-plexors will run without an extender.

[binky123]

I think the "db-" keys are device button keys without a physical button. You can include them in macros to switch to that device setup code. For example, assigning SHIFT-CABLE to a macro that executes db-10 will allow you to switch to whatever setup code is on db-10.

[Zellarman]

Binky is correct - DB's are device buttons without a physical button, used for keymoves, macros, etc

[underquark]

There are 8 physical buttons on the 9910, each of which can can have their own setup code and KeyMoves. There are 7 virtual devices - the db's, each of which can have their own setup codes BUT NOT KeyMoves. The db's are often called by placing a macro on a convenient button (e.g. Shift-SAT to call db-10).

You can use Device Multiplexor (which is, itself set up as a special KeyMove) to change the setup code of any given physical button BUT you are restricted to "normal" keys and no KeyMoves. This is because KeyMoves are tied not only to a physical button but also to a specified setup code at the time of creation of the KeyMove.

You cannot (unles things have changed) use KeyMoves on the db buttons since a KeyMove requires 4 bits to code for it and the db buttons can only handle 3 bits. This means (again correct me if I am wrong) that you cannot use the Device Multiplexor on the db buttons since it is by itself set up as a special KeyMove.

So, for multiple devices of the same type - that DO NOT use KeyMoves - you can assign them to separate db's and call them from whichever buttons are convenient OR you can use the Device Multiplexor. The latter is neat but uses a bit more memory as the protocol needs to be loaded. either would work for the task mentioned here so long as KeyMoves aren't involved.

Slightly to the side of the topic, I have been trying to get multiple devices working in multiple rooms using KeyMoves but have hit a bit of a wall on the 8910 and the 8820 (Device Multiplexor misbehaving at least on the 8820, probable simple error on my part on the 8910). My idea is to split all upgrades into two parts and have each part assigned to a separate button. When you press a "real" device button (and it could be any conveniently-labelled button) Device Multiplexor would change the setup code for each of the two host buttons to reflect the "real" and "KeyMove" parts of the upgrade. KeyMoves don't move when the setup codes are changed but macros DO - or, to be more specific, macros don't care since they only point at other buttons without reference to setup code. I have, therefore, tried to set up a host of Device-Specific Macros to point from one button to the other to enable KeyMoves. Will post more in a suitable thread once I get some success with it but I see it's a question that has been asked before (ElizabethD for the 6131) and find it intriguing.

[johnsfine]

You cannot (unles things have changed) use KeyMoves on the db buttons since a KeyMove requires 4 bits to code for it and the db buttons can only handle 3 bits. This means (again correct me if I am wrong) that you cannot use the Device Multiplexor on the db buttons since it is by itself set up as a special KeyMove.

That is not exactly correct. All device buttons (real and virtual) support keymoves, but in some cases those keymoves are shared.

Device buttons are internally numbered 0 to 15 (with the real ones getting the lowest numbers and the virtual ones getting numbers directly above the last real one).

There are only eight sets of keymoves. Device 0 uses the same set of keymoves as device 8. Device 1 uses the same set of keymoves as devioce 9, etc.

If you define a keymove for device 0, that keymove will be available (bound to whatever key it was) when device 0 is selected and also when device 8 is selected.
If you try to define a keymove for device 8, that keymove will actually be defined for device 0, so it will be available (as I just decribed above) in both device mode 0 and device mode 8.

So, for multiple devices of the same type - that DO NOT use KeyMoves - you can assign them to separate db's and call them from whichever buttons are convenient

I don't understand why "same type" is relevent.

Also "do not use keymoves" is too strict. You can use keymoves as long as you don't have conflicting use of keymoves between devices that are 8 apart in internal number.

Device 0 could use a keymove on a key that you never use in device mode 8, while device 8 uses a keymove on some other key that you never use in device mode 0. Device 0 and 8 might share some keymove that you happen to want identical in those two modes, for example: I have multiple VCRs and want some TV PIP functions (beyond those on the PIP keys) keymoved into each VCR device mode.

[underquark]

"multiple devices of the same type"
Agree, they don't have to be of the same type - I was thinking of the example of three Tivo's mentioned above and didn't word this correctly.

Agree you can use KeyMoves so long as they don't overlap but I, at least, get really confused trying to do this and think sticking to putting devices using KeyMoves onto real buttons is easier.

Is it still the case, however, that you can't multiplex a db?

[km]

It seemed to me that the easiest way for me to get my extra device button was to associate the new device with db-09 and create a macro for shift-cable with the single key db-09.

This doesn't work and I don't know why. If the macro picks another real device key that works, but with db-09 it does nothing.

[johnsfine]

create a macro for shift-cable with the single key db-09.

This doesn't work and I don't know why.

Do you really mean "doesn't work" (you created that macro and tested it and it didn't work). Or do you mean "couldn't do it"?

I don't know of any RDF file for the 8910 that has a db-09 key. If there were one, I really doubt the unextended remote would understand it, and I don't know of any extender that does either.

Assuming you're not using an extender, to access a device mode that has neither a physical key nor a phantom key, you need to define a keymove with some form of the device select protocol. Since that keymove exists in only one of the other device modes, you also probably need to define a macro to invoke that keymove.

Several models of OFS remote have one or more device modes that lack physical buttons, but have phantom buttons (some position in the electrical matrix of the keyboard where if a key were wired in there it would select that device). But most device modes that lack physical buttons also lack phantom buttons. If I recall correctly, that is the case for all the extra device modes of the 8910.

[km]

I'm using rmaster and ir.

Doesn't work meant, that ir was happy, and I tested the downloaded image. The macro that invoked db-09 had no effect.

The rdf file I'm using with ir is

CPT0CPT0 (URC-8910(Old)_9910(Old)_8910(New)_9910(New)_HTPro).rdf

which has

[DeviceButtons]
....
db-09 = $01C $01D
...

in it.

As far as "define a keymove with some form of the device select protocol.", I need some help. Several of the devices are Tivo and differ only in unit code. If I knew how to toggle the unit code in a macro that would be perfect.