Buying equipment with macros in mind

Post by **vickyg2003** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:31 am

I'm going to be getting a new TV.

My #1 requirement in for selecting the TV is to find one that will work well in macros in my remotes. I need to avoid toggling protocols like the RC5, since they are so troublesome for me.

What's the best way to do this?

What protocols other than RC5 are going to have that miserable toggle bit?

gfb107 · Post by **gfb107** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:27 am

Don't forget to include discrete power and input select commands in your shopping criteria.

Obviously, you can be pretty sure that Sony TVs will use a Sony protocol, so those are safe and often have all the discretes you want.

I would stay away from Toshiba, since they make a lot of TOADs.

My Samsung DLP uses one of the NEC protocols, and has all the discretes I want. I'm very happy with it. The only minor downside is that it has a short warm up period while the bulb warms up before it comes on, and during that time it doesn't accept any IR signals.

Nils_Ekberg · Post by **Nils_Ekberg** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:55 am

The Olevia TV's all use NEC1 and have caused no problems. It does have a few discretes for inputs but not for power.

Samsungs are typically NEC2 but very shy on discretes.

I second Greg's comment on Toshibas

greenough1 · Post by **greenough1** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:26 am

I wouldn't necessary exclude toshibas because of usage of RC5 protocols. Their DLP's are very hard to beat from a performance and calibratibility point of view.

My older toshiba crt rptv circa 2002 had discretes for input selection, but no discrete for on/off. Not a big deal at all since once it's on, its on.

My opinions on choosing a display are driven by other criterion. the overall constraint is first budget. Within a certain size of display, cost varies alot depending on the technology. Your choices these days are plasma, DLP and LCD, excluding projectors.

You're limited to sizes under around 50'' for plasma, with a max of 58'' coming in around $4000. LCD's can be now found in a 65'', but cost over $6000. Clearly when you're at the max size for a technology you'll pay for it. Mainstream (value-oriented) plasma sets are nominally 50'', similarly for LCD's.

Plasmas and LCD's are high on the cool factor as they can be hung on the wall like a picture. Plasmas are susceptible to burn-in while LCD's are not. LCD's can show motion artifacts during say fast action pans (sports), but are improving.

Best bang for the buck, if you can tolerate a table top display is DLP. the current generation of toshibas for e.g. are quite good. At 65'' toshiba can be had for $1700, quite a good deal. A similarly priced samsung plasma will run about $1500.

My general criterion for picking a display is to get the right size. If you need something in the 50'', then you have lots of choices. Note that you'll pay a premium for 1080p over 720p/1080i displays. And right now, and for the next couple of years there's nothing wrong with 720p/1080i displays (i.e. it's ok to avoid 1080p displays) and all content is limited to 720p/1080i (all over the air HD is 720p or 1080i). There are issues with some players producing correct 1080p images.

I also consider calibratibility of a display to standards via user controls. the samsungs I know are great about this. I'm not sure about the toshiba, but understand they can be brought to standard quite easily (but might require entry to the service menu).

sorry for the long post, but if you're like me, you're beginning a longish and quite confusing journey to pick the "right" display. the main beginning point is first to:
- decide how big of a display you need (mainly determined by how far back you sit)

then optimize against:
- technology features/performance
- price

Best,
jeff

Post by **vickyg2003** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:31 am

I have all TOADs, which is okay, but I have one Phillips/Magnovox TV, that has absolutely wonderful for reception, picture, features, and price/value, BUT it has that RC5 protocol and I can't automate things easily. I really want to avoid that when I get a new tV

Normally I look at features/picture quality/value, when buying equipment but after going back to juggling remotes for a while last year before I figured out how to do an upgrade, made me realize that my remote is a very important part my JP1 remotes play in my day to day life. Ease of use is a huge part of viewing enjoyment.

IBNobody · Post by **IBNobody** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:21 pm

My vote goes like my $$$'s did. I spent 6 months researching the perfect TV for my needs. I bought a Panasonic 50PZ77U plasma.

The remote uses the Panasonic protocol. If you want to know what the remote can do, look here.

It can't do discrete aspect ratios, but it CAN do discrete inputs. That is a must for automation.

Here's a little buying guide that lists the faults of each big TV format...

DLPs have the projection viewing angle problem, and you have to replace the bulb.

LCDs have motion blur and don't handle SD as well as DLP's or plasmas.

Plasmas have to be babied/burned-in for the first 100-1000 hours and typically have glossy screens that are prone to reflective glare. (Many new LCDs, especially the Samsung, have the same glare problem. The plasma I bought has an anti-glare coating.)

Post by **vickyg2003** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:56 pm

Jeff and IB thanks for the education on the screen formats.

Jeff wrote:,
I wouldn't necessary exclude toshibas because of usage of RC5 protocols

Toshibas are not RC5, I think Toshibas are Nec1. Toshibas might be toads, but Toads are fine. When I'm talking toggling protocols, I'm NOT talking about handling Toads with our ToadTog protocol, I'm talking about a protocol that sends out a different signal with every other time you press the same key. They are really not fun to try and automate, especially if you have multiple remotes for the same device like I always have. I spent hours upon hours trying to do a drill down macro , only to give up in utter frustration. I'm not a person who gives up easily, but toggling protocols with macros. Eeek. When you work with these normally, it gets a little annoying when you have to press a key twice to get it to respond. However in macros they were too much for me. My drill down attempt landed me in a DIFFERENT PLACE EVERY time.

When I had orignially written down the steps that I was programming in, sometimes I had to press the key 2x. I thought it was because I wasn't aiming correctly, or had pressed the wrong button or some other user error. Then I found out about RC5 protocols, and realized that I wasn't miss-pressing it, the buttons were getting out of synch with the device. So every time I manually repeated the proposed macro, different keys that needed to be pressed twice. [/quote]

irs009 · Post by **irs009** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:29 pm

Vicky, I have a TV that uses the RC5 protocol, and when I read your last paragraph it really opened my eyes to a lot of problems I have been having with macros.

You said "Then I found out about RC5 protocols". Will you tell me, if you know, where I can find information on this protocol so I might be able to construct more reliable macros?

Thanks, Jack

Post by **vickyg2003** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:24 am

Vicky, I have a TV that uses the RC5 protocol, and when I read your last paragraph it really opened my eyes to a lot of problems I have been having with macros.

You said "Then I found out about RC5 protocols". Will you tell me, if you know, where I can find information on this protocol so I might be able to construct more reliable macros?

Hi Jack,

This is still somewhat of a mystery to me. but I do know that

1) learned signals don't work with RC5 because they are static, and the RC5 requires the signal to alternate.

2) UEI remotes have 1 toggle bit that is shared among all the devices in your system. Your UEI remote can easily get out of synch with your device and require a second key press to get the device to be back in sych, so a simple volume up, volume down at the beginning of a macro worked for some easier macros, and sometimes if you are accessing other equipment in a macro, you may need to add a dummy code, just to trigger the UEI toggle to synch back up to your device.

3) Some OEM remotes have multiple toggle bits for different key sets. This is where I got lost. I have one RC5 device that has the menu keys are in a different toggle set than the numbers/volume keys. You might be able to handle this with ONE remote, but I have multiple remotes for each TV. So this was a problem I just couldn't deal with, and gave up.

On a side note I lucked out when I found an old tube TV on the bulletin board, for $15 "no remote"

. I went to the library, downloaded all the Sanyo upgrades from here. Found a partially working upgrade, and brute forced my way to find all the needed functionality, and now have remotes that handle the complications of switching from DVD's to cable with the long press of a button, and help brings up the TV-Guide channel.

Next time we go down, I hope to be able to prepare a remote that will reset all the equipment after a power failure. That is a long task each time. The radio loses all its presets, the bedroom TV adds back all the shopping and foreign language channels, the VCR and DVR lose their time, ....

[/quote]

underquark · Post by **underquark** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:40 pm

vickyg2003 wrote:...the VCR and DVR lose their time, ....

Worth investing in a small UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply) as sold for PC's. I have my DVD-R and PVR hooked up to one. The battery wouldn't last a long power outage if both devices were recording but in standby it keeps them powered and saves the clock and recording timer settings.

Post by **vickyg2003** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:09 pm

Well that wouldn't work for me. The old guy that watches over the place when its empty, routinely unplugs all the electronic devices. Oh well!

irs009 · Post by **irs009** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:33 am

Vicky,

Thank you so much for your time. I will print and digest what you have told me. My main problem has been using power in macros. It would be simple with discrete codes, but I've never found any. Sending a power key twice is like playing Russian Roulette - you never know what's going to happen.

Again, Thank you...Jack

Post by **vickyg2003** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:26 pm

Jack,

Sending a power key twice is like playing Russian Roulette - you never know what's going to happen.

Russian Roulette is a very good description of RC5 in a macro!

Even though the power is not on, my phillips/magnavox TVs still respond to their signals. If I press volume up/volume down, even when the power is off, the TV still flashes the acknowledging red signal and can synch up the remote. The volume+/volume- might do the trick for you. If not, there may be things that can be done with an extender and an LKP to solve your issues.

irs009 · Post by **irs009** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:02 pm

I use an extender Vicky and use a lot of LKP's. I'll have to give some thought to what you said about things that can be done. I apologize to all for taking this thread so far off topic.

Thanks Vicky, Jack