Need help with cranky Navigator Remote

[MaximusPlank]

I'm not sure but I think I've found another variation of the Navigator remote. Programs used are KM 9.07, RM 1.78 and IR 7.03. Using IR 703, after 981 reset and downloaded to IR, it asks to choose between 44000-B02_B04 CYC1 and the Comcast CYC1. I choose the B02_B04 since B04 is written on the battery cover. I've found several threads with similar Navigator problems but have not been able to resolve the issues below using RM178/KM907/IR703/RDF127.

Symptoms are as follows:
1. When opened in RM 178 layout tab, seven buttons aren't mapped to the pic but show up in the phantom area. This is not really a hinderance but may be a clue the RDF needs adjustment. To see this all you have to do is open RM and select any Navigator remote (B00 thru B04). B00 displays correctly but the rest seem to be in error (?).

2. When upgrade from RM is added to IR devices there is an error "List index out of bounds (-1)"

3. When inputting the upgrade ID number in the general tab, error says "AdvCode object not found."

4. When this session is written to remote, IR gives two blinks but remote only a single blink.

5. When remote is connected to JP1 cable, led blinks on 8 second intervals (not sure what this means)

6. When upgrade uses up all possible remote buttons (RM) error says "Access violation at address 004BACD8 in module 'ir.exe'. Read of address 00B08024." ...although writing Pansat 2500 sat/Cable file to remote results in double blinks and most buttons function correctly.

7. When upgrade made with KM and pasted into IR, error says "Data read back differs from data written", remote gives single blink & no buttons work.

8. Buttons that won't work, not even a blink: mute, vol up, vol down, F1, F2, F3, ppv, tv/vcr (this key gives a blink) and the last 8 under the cover. Macro keys (F keys) are not available at all.

9. Most times after adding Navigator devices, IR interaction with mouse cursor movement/clicks becomes erratic (for lack of a better word). Maybe my mouse driver causing problems there.


Remote: Navigator Cable Remote
Model on battery cover: URC-44XXXB04
Sticker inside battery compartment:
44A477E1170016-2015
M03701 UEI
00394 A4L3 2912


For convience I've listed some lines that have data...
000: 6798 4359 4331 DC2f 3CCC 0110 2031 0001
010: 0203 0101 0100 0000 0000 0000 00FF FFFF
0F0: FFFF FFFF FFFF FFFF FFFF FF00 4E41 5630
100: 0104 0104 0000 3EBE FC48 4120 FF60 DD3D

FILES POSTED
1. Dump(s) is posted here. RDF selected when IR asked was Navigator URC 44000B02_B04. Included is a clean 981 dump. Not included are dumps with other upgrades installed. Most any upgrade from the file list will give the same errors (tested several). (Navigator B04 dumps.zip - included clean 981 dump and dump with TV 1463 [Insignia] upgrade installed.)
Diagonisis area: http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=4961
...also, here's one of the upgrades used - Insignia 1463: http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=2850

2. Jpg/pic of remote is posted here. (Navigator.jpg)
Diagnosis area: http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=4960

3. "Full" UEI manual is posted here. (Navigator-M4078.pdf, it's really a mini manual but not available here yet)
Help files: http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=4959

Sorry if this is TMI (too much information) or in rambling format. My investigation of this remote has got me all jumbled up. I seem to always stumble onto cable remotes that no one has ever seen before. (Scout, Millenium4-BJ8 and now Navigator-xxx) Thanks again Mike E and all of you for your help in the past!

[mr_d_p_gumby]

I'm not sure but I think I've found another variation of the Navigator remote.

I do have one of the B04 Navigator remotes, so this is not a new variation. However, keep in mind that the buttons tend to be labelled differently for each cable company, so this always causes confusion in identifying the Navigators. (Someone else created the Comcast RDF in an attempt to have RM show the correct button names for that particular remote.)

I can't help out much at the moment as I am in China, so maybe someone else can take a look at some of your symptoms. I've givien some comments below:

1. When opened in RM 178 layout tab, seven buttons aren't mapped to the pic but show up in the phantom area. This is not really a hinderance but may be a clue the RDF needs adjustment. To see this all you have to do is open RM and select any Navigator remote (B00 thru B04). B00 displays correctly but the rest seem to be in error (?).

Most likely an RDF or map file problem, should only affect RM. Try using the B00 for now.

2. When upgrade from RM is added to IR devices there is an error "List index out of bounds (-1)"

Try turning off the embedded notes. I've seen this before, but I don't recall if this is a bug in IR or if the RDF is at fault.

I3. When inputting the upgrade ID number in the general tab, error says "AdvCode object not found."!

No idea.

4. When this session is written to remote, IR gives two blinks but remote only a single blink.

If this is a single long blink, then the remote has prroblems. If it is just a short blink, then the remote is getting reset by the JP1 cable before it gets a chance to do the second blink. Disconnect the cable, pull out the batteris, press a button for a few seconds, then watch the blinks when the batteries are put back. This could just be a voltage problem between your computer & the remote while it is plugged into the cable. Also, the older 6805RC-based remotes tended to have a long R-C time constant on the reset line, and IR may not be issuing a long enough reset pulse to reset the remote properly.

5. When remote is connected to JP1 cable, led blinks on 8 second intervals (not sure what this means)

No idea. I've never seen this happen before.

6. When upgrade uses up all possible remote buttons (RM) error says "Access violation at address 004BACD8 in module 'ir.exe'. Read of address 00B08024." ...although writing Pansat 2500 sat/Cable file to remote results in double blinks and most buttons function correctly.

No idea.

7. When upgrade made with KM and pasted into IR, error says "Data read back differs from data written", remote gives single blink & no buttons work.

I can't see how it would matter if the upgrade came from RM or KM. This sounds like a problem with the JP1 communications. When IR writes the data to the EEPROM, it reads it back & compares to what was written. This message indicates a failure of that test.

[MaximusPlank]

Hi Mike, I've been going through your suggestions and taking notes as I go along. Sorry if some of them seem to conflict. I've made ernest attempt to make sure test results are accurate.

Note: One thing that made a big difference was to set the device upgrade number BEFORE adding it's code. "List index out of bounds (-1)" error stopped showing up.

1. Buttons tend to be labeled differently
A: Ok, I can live with that.

2. Try using RDF B00
A: B00 maps good in RM but B04 is the only RDF that writes and results in working buttons. Now that I know to set the upgrade number before adding the device code, it is working almost completely. The only buttons not addressable are the 3 F keys (macro keys).

3. Try turning off embedded notes
A: Tried that and also tried removing the [human] written notes without any difference.

4. If this is a single long blink, then the remote has prroblems. If it is just a short blink, then the remote is getting reset by the JP1 cable before it gets a chance to do the second blink. Disconnect the cable, pull out the batteris, press a button for a few seconds, then watch the blinks when the batteries are put back. This could just be a voltage problem between your computer & the remote while it is plugged into the cable. Also, the older 6805RC-based remotes tended to have a long R-C time constant on the reset line, and IR may not be issuing a long enough reset pulse to reset the remote properly.
A: Well now that you got me looking, different RDFs make some strange timing blinks but the B004 was long blinks until I set the upgrade number first step in IR. Now IR has settled down, mouse interaction normal and writes normal.

Macros are the only evidence that there may be something wrong without a workaround. I understand that some UEI cable remotes only allow one macro assigned for all devices and may again be the case here but...
In IR, the macro add window has all the remote's keys available for "Bound Key" but under macro definition it has the same keys. Remote functions should be in there (correct?).

It appears that this computer's parallel port may be causing the 8 second blink cycle. I noticed my trusty array of Millenium4's also blink the same. This parallel port had to be set to "normal" in bios instead of bi-directional/ecp/epp in order to run other legacy hardware correctly. That setting may not agree with JP1. There may be some bug on the JP1 side ie: RM maps some buttons down in phantom area, the mouse acts strange in IR and macro setup in IR not correct, but the workaround seems to result in near perfect JP1 control of the remote (I may be the only one with these symptoms). Either way, thanks for the help and sorry for sounding off the alarm, this problem is not near as bad as I thought. If the experts decide this remote's software needs some adjustments, I'll be willing to do any tests required. Thanks!

Next project is to work on the used Atlas-XL I picked up, marked as JP1 but not responding to anything in IR (JP1.x ?).
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=4965

[Capn Trips]

That particular model of Atlas has not previously been identified as a JP1 or JP1.x remote. Since there is only one chip, and not a separate EEPROM from the processor, I'd bet that it's a JP1.2 or JP1.3, as there are other Atlases that are both.

So you need a JP1.2/3 cable and then you'd have to develop your brand new rdf (with help from the forum experts). After getting the cable, get a raw download from the remote and post it.

[MaximusPlank]

Ok thanks Capn. I figured it might be JP1.x but the JP1 marking threw me off. I'll build a cable in the next week or so and then post the dump.

I'm still hoping someone in the know can help me figure out the bug in the Navigator-B04 softwares. I don't think the average Joe will be able to work with it the way it is now. I tested RM and IR on another computer that is known to work with JP1 and had all the same issues (including mouse mis-behavior) when selecting the Navigator B04. There's definately some sort of bug.

To repeat some of the symptoms, JP1 cable or the remote is not necessary:
1. Open RM.
2. Open any upgrade you have on file then selet the Navigator B04.
3. Copy the output and paste it into IR.
Does ANYONE else notice problems with this?

[MaximusPlank]

That particular model of Atlas has not previously been identified as a JP1 or JP1.x remote. Since there is only one chip, and not a separate EEPROM from the processor, I'd bet that it's a JP1.2 or JP1.3, as there are other Atlases that are both.

So you need a JP1.2/3 cable and then you'd have to develop your brand new rdf (with help from the forum experts). After getting the cable, get a raw download from the remote and post it.

Slight hijack of my own thread...
I finally finished building a JP1.x cable, a hybrid between the surface mount and discrete components and a switch installed for Pin5 in/out. It appeared broken at first, working fine on the JP1.1 side reading/writing a Comcast 1058 (labeled JP1.1) but stumbled on 2 different Atlas remotes. Summary of Atlas tests below:


Atlas 1047C [Pics - http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=4965]
Marked JP1, JP1 cable does NOT work

Pin5 in -
Sig returned, CS400102
RDF not found using RDFv1.28
IR led does not power at all during test (using cell phone camera)
upon batt insertion - 2 blinks
number buttons work before/not after read
no red blink after read

Pin5 out - Failed to Open Interface error, 2 blinks;
Numbers work before/after read.
No IR led power up


Atlas 1055BA1
Marked JP1.3
Pin5 in -
No blink upon batt insert
No numbers work before/after read
Sig 003000še (the s is strange)
No RDF available using RDFv1.28
IR led powers up during read test (using cell phone camera)

Pin5 out - Failed to Open Interface error, 3 blinks after read - 1 fast 2 normal;
Numbers buttons give double blink before/after testing.
2 blinks on batt insert.
No IR led power up


Summary: I think the homemade JP1.x interface is working correctly but the Atlas remotes are the stumbling block.
The Atlas 1047 is certainly not a JP1, now known to require a JP1.x cable and new RDF. Pin5 needs to be in circuit so it's JP1.1/2(?).
The Atlas 1055BA1, marked as JP1.3 but Pin5 needs to be in circuit (???).

Dumps are in diagnosis area, if somebody could please help develop RDFs for these two it will be appreciated.
File name: Atlas 1047C-1055BA1 Dumps.zip
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=5578

[Capn Trips]

If those downloads are accurate, then you've found some (at least one)new remotes, imho.

The 1047 simply looks like a new remote for which someone has to build you a starter rdf.

But the 1055BA1 has been previously seen with a sig of 30003000. It looks like yours is "trying" to show that sig but has a problem in the first two bytes. Have you tried downloading several times? Have you done a 981 reset and then tried downloading?

[MaximusPlank]

Thanks Capn, you were so right, I did a 981 reset and the remote responded normally [with Pin5 in the circuit]. IR reported back that it is an Atlas 5-Device PVR Day 3000 JP1.3. I was able to get a rom dump and saved it, next proceeded to write an upgrade and that killed the remote. In four years of doing this stuff, I've never seen one this dead. Although I'm sure it's just corrupted, it seems so far away from ever coming back to life. It may be stuck in service mode or something. So far I've tried resets eventhough there's no lights, using IR to write F's or 0's and clear upper memory, reverse batteries, and reset done by battery removal. I sure hope there is a post here where someone has seen this before. In the past when eeproms get this messed up people find there sometimes is a pin that can be made high or low to reset. I can post the dump after a 981 if that may help. To be sure I'm going to open it up to check for physical damage.

Anyway, thanks Capn, you were right on the money. At least I know the cable is working. It may be a fun challenge to get the 1055 back working again.

[MaximusPlank]

Aye carramba, this brand new Atlas 1055 remote is depressingly dead. The JP1.x world is not the safe happy haven that JP1 is. After exausting my troubleshooting skills, it appears 99% confirmed that there is no hardware damage, simply what I would call a corrupt boot sector. Even if I could solder wires onto the correct pins and had software to reprogram the thing, the original boot image is gone. This wasn't even my remote, oh poop, spilled milk, time to test the owner and see how attached he was to it. Forget an RDF for the 1047, adventure spirit is gone. At least we aren't testing airplanes here, the results may have been a bit worse.