Electrohome Marquee 8500 CRT projector

[garyfritz]

1. Device: Electrohome Marquee 8500
2. Type of device: CRT projector
3. Year: 1996
4. JP1/UEI Remote model: URC-9910
5. Do you have a JP1 cable? Yes
6. Still have original remote? Yes
7. Checked the file section? Yes
8. Checked Pronto file section (at R/C)? Yes, see here
9. Partially working setup code? No
10. Learning remote question? (see below)

I have a URC 9910. With much help from the kind folks here I got it working, and have been using it happily since then.

But that was a year ago. Many brain cells have died since then and I've also gotten a new piece of equipment -- and I can't get it to work with the remote.

I got an Electrohome Marquee 8500 CRT projector -- not exactly new tech so not a lot of people are using JP1 remotes with it. Apparently it can be made to work with JP1 remotes, since there is an upgrade for it here. It was posted by jon_armstrong, whose profile says "Location: R.I.P. 3/26/2005". I tried loading that upgrade into the remote and it didn't work.

I haven't been able to find anyone who's using JP1 remotes with this type of projector. I dug around on the net but (other than Jon's upgrade) couldn't find anything useful. All I found was an Electrohome Marquee-A.DVC file, but I suspect that information is already in the upgrade.

There are several possible issues involved here:
* According to the upgrade, the Ehome projectors use two different IR frequencies. The Marquee line supposedly uses the high-freq (336 kHz) option.
* The Marquees support two "protocols," allowing two projectors in the same room to be controlled by two remotes. I don't know which protocol the upgrade uses, or how to change it.
* I'm not sure if the 9910 is capable of handling the 336 kHz signal. With some difficulty I got it to learn codes from the Marquee remote, but the projector does not respond to them. Would it be useful to learn some codes, upload them into IR.exe, and post something in the diagnosis area?

Thanks for any pointers!
Gary

[Nils_Ekberg]

I have a URC 9910.
Would it be useful to learn some codes, upload them into IR.exe, and post something in the diagnosis area?

Thanks for any pointers!
Gary

I am not familiar with the device or even if the 9910 is capable of the frequency but I think so.

However, that is a good suggestion to try to learn a few buttons and upload the IR file here so we can get a look at it.

[The Robman]

Learning remotes cannot capture frequencies that high, but they can certainly be programmed to replicate them if we know the full info on the signal.

[garyfritz]

Learning remotes cannot capture frequencies that high, but they can certainly be programmed to replicate them if we know the full info on the signal.

Hm. Maybe that explains why it was fairly hard to get the remote to report SUCCESS on learning? It's hard telling what it thought it was learning, but apparently it wasn't learning the Marquee codes?

If so, there's no point in trying to learn codes and upload them, and the only source of information I have is the upgrade. Which I cannot decipher. Does that upgrade look sensible to you? Any guesses why it didn't work when I tried it?

It's entirely possible the upgrade is just fine, but I fat-fingered something due to not having looked at this stuff for a year. If it looks OK, I'll try again and see if I can figure out what I did wrong.

BTW: I edited my original post to add the age of the projector and to add a link to the R/C Pronto codes.

Thanks,
Gary

[The Robman]

Just FYI, I did a search and found the original thread where Jon developed the protocol that's used in the upgrade that you found...

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3680

While the 9910 can't properly learn signals with high frequencies, the data that it does capture might be useful in determining the "codes" being used. In other words, it's quite possible that the upgrade that you tried uses the correct protocol but just has the wrong device code (or something) encoded into it.

Therefore, please do go ahead and learn some of the buttons and post an IR file containing the results.

Also, just so we can confirm that you didn't make any silly mistakes, could you also load the IR file that contains the upgrades that you loaded. Did you try both upgrades (ie, the 43khz one and the 336 khz one)?

[garyfritz]

OK. I will learn and upload when I get a chance -- possibly tonight.

No, I didn't try the 43kHz version, since that supposedly only applied to the ECP line of projectors. All Marquee/Vidikron projectors used 336, according to the upgrade and the Pronto files.

I've uploaded the IR file I tried here.

Thanks!

[garyfritz]

OK, I played hookey this afternoon. I uploaded an IR file with some codes learned from the Ehome remote here.

The file contains other stuff, like DVD and Receiver codes. I learned the codes in the TV device. Most of the codes are left over from the upgrade file I tried (wasn't sure how to clear out the device), but the keys I learned were: POWER UP DOWN LEFT RIGHT SELECT 1 2 3

Thanks!
Gary

[The Robman]

If I understand what was written in that other thread correctly, some projectors respond to both sets of signals, so you should at least try both of them before we dig too deeply into what one codeset doesn't work.

[garyfritz]

The projector in that thread was one of the ECP models. The upgrade says some ECP models respond to high, some to low, and from that thread, apparently some can respond to both. But the upgrade says the Marquees use only high.

But I tried it anyway. Setup code 1111 instead of 1112. Still didn't work.

From that thread it looks like Jon did some pretty major hackery to get the protocol figured out, and they never really got it working until they got ahold of an 8810 that had already learned the ECP codes. If the Marquee uses the 336 kHz protocol, and the 9910 can't learn those high-freq codes, am I hosed?

[The Robman]

I took a very quick look at your lerans and it does appear that you were able to capture the data, however the data doesn't match the format that Jon described in the earlier thread, which is...

{42.3k,msb}<-376,+376|376,-376>((1:1,31:6,376,^24m),(1:1,F:6,376,^46m)+)

I'm seeing learns in your file like this...

+20 -2618 +20 -374 +20 -1112 +20 -738 +20 -362 +20 -738 +20 -1112 +20 -39142

I'm not sure if that small +20 time is for real or an artifact of how the signal was learned.

The reason the learns don't work is because they don't show any carrier frequency, which is as expected.

[johnsfine]

I haven't had time to look yet. But my first guess about the cause of those +20 times would be weak batteries in the original remote.

The learn Rob quoted is very suggestive of the IRP notation he quoted, so I think they are the same protocol. I expect we can look at several samples and deduce the correspondence between the learned signals and the actual. That may be necessary if the main learning error is a fundamental consequence of the high frequency.

But in case the main learning error is due to weak batteries in the original remote, try again with new batteries. Even if that fixes something, I expect learning would still be difficult and the learned signals wouldn't work. But the results may be easier to convert to something that does work.

[garyfritz]

The batteries are strong enough that it works fine bouncing it off the screen, but I'll put in fresh ones if you think that would help. Are rechargeable NiMN batteries OK, do you suppose? I don't think I have a set of 4 fresh AA's around.

I have no idea how to interpret those learns. Can you compare the learns to what's in the upgrade and see where the upgrade might be wrong? Or are the learns more indicative of the protocol than of the buttons described in the upgrade?

Ah! Brainstorm! I just noticed the "About Electrohome Univ.txt" file in the Marquee upgrade describes the 336 kHz and 42 kHz frequencies as "Protocol A" and "Protocol B." Remember I mentioned the projectors support two different "protocols" to allow controlling two projectors in the room? They are called Protocol A and Protocol B! I'll bet the Marquee is also capable of supporting both low and high freqs!! It was set on Protocol A, which is theoretically the high freq. If I set the remote to Protocol B (hopefully 42 kHz), might I have more luck learning codes into the 9910?

I tried that, and uploaded the learned-at-low-freq codes here. I memorized the same set: POWER, UP/DOWN/LEFT/RIGHT, SELECT, 1 2 3.

Jon posted a different upgrade for the ECPs but I had the impression the 336 kHz upgrade was supposed to work for both Marquee and 336 kHz ECP. Hmmmm. You know, I've only been looking at the Marquee upgrade, thinking it would be the best match. But I just realized the Marquee/ECP upgrade is dated January 2005, which was at the start of Jon's efforts. I suspect it may be a direct translation of the Pronto CCFs? Whereas the one they finally got working was from the remote with learned signals, and that one is here. That protocol is much shorter (less code). ?

I tried the March ECP upgrade, and.... HEY! It works! Sort of anyway. From the timing constant at the start of the protocol I guessed that was for the low freq, and I set the projector to protocol B, and shazam!

It doesn't work great, but it's a start. I have to point the 9910 directly at the front of the projector. The Ehome remote could bounce off the screen easily, and I have the 9910's IR blaster next to the screen pointing at the projector -- not sure why it's not working any better than that. I would think the IR blaster would be stronger than the Ehome remote?? The 9910 will be of limited use if I have to stand up and point at the projector to get it to work -- that means e.g. turn-on / turn-off macros aren't going to work unless I'm standing right in front of the projector. Do you think there is something about the protocol that's causing this?

One other thing: I notice none of the Ehome upgrades include the ENTER key, which is a fairly important key. I tried learning it onto the 9910's SELECT key, and it didn't work. The ENTER key is memorized on SELECT in the learned-at-low-freq codes I posted above, if that's any help.

Same with POWER -- doesn't seem to work at all. You have to hold down the POWER key for a second or so for it to work -- maybe that's where those "set low bit to repeat 22 times" comments come in?

Thanks guys!
Gary

[The Robman]

I'm not seeing any learned signals in the most recent file that you posted.

[garyfritz]

The learned-at-low-freq file? Hm. I'll have to try learning and posting it again.

[johnsfine]

The batteries are strong enough that it works fine bouncing it off the screen,

That doesn't mean they're strong enough for learning.

but I'll put in fresh ones if you think that would help. Are rechargeable NiMN batteries OK, do you suppose?

I don't know. The characteristic that matters is that weak batteries have an abrupt drop in voltage shortly (milliseconds or even less) after you start a large current draw. The starting voltage isn't the significant issue (most Nicad and some NiMH batteries fully charged are the voltage of a nearly dead alkaline). The issue is how much the voltage drops across a time period from few microseconds after the start of current to a few milliseconds later. Weak alkalines and low quality or too many times recharged rechargeable batteries have a big drop. That drop affects the signal in a way that messes up a short range generic unmodulated IR receiver, such as used in most learning remotes, but makes no difference to a long range specific frequency modulated IR receiver such as that used in most A/V devices.

I have no idea how to interpret those learns. Can you compare the learns to what's in the upgrade and see where the upgrade might be wrong?

I think I could, but I've been seriously overcommiting IR research projects lately, to much more than I'm actually going to accomplish. I think Rob is giving you better help than I will find time to give.