Toadtog and Koss KD260

[Bebel]

Hi,

I have a URC-8811 with 6012ex3_3 installed as the extender. Works really well on the whole but I've been having trouble with a toggle on a TOAD device. I have other devices (all DUDEs) set up on the remote that work perfectly.

The device is a Koss KD260 DVD/0651 player. I installed the upgrade available in the file section.

The extender is set up as per guidelines in the 6012/881x Extender document that I also found on this website.

Basically, I'm trying to set up an "all on" function that turns on the TV, receiver and DVD player when I hit the DVD device key on the remote. This part works.

Here's where I get confused: the power button on the remote is set up to toggle the player on and off using state tracking. Once all the devices are on, I can turn the DVD player off using a short key press on the power button -- but I can't turn it back on again.

DVD/Phantom3 is set up as follows: ToadTog toggle 1, toggle mode, L4, L4 [$11 $28 $28]. L4 is DVD/0651 linked to $84, which is the code for the power button as per the Koss KD260 upgrade.

DVD/Power is set up as follows: LKP(6), Short=Phantom3, Long=Phantom 4 (an "all off" function) [$61 $3F $40].

I can use L4 on its own to turn the DVD player off and on as much as I like. But I can only turn it OFF with a short press of the power button. It won't turn back on again.

This doesn't make sense to me, because if I can use L4 to turn the player off and on, I should be able to do the same with short presses of the power button, since the power button is mapped to L4 through DVD/Phantom3.

Or am I totally confused about ToadTog functionality?

The end result of all this is that the DVD player seems perpetually out of sync or unresponsive once it's been powered.

It seems to me that this may have something to do with state tracking, but I haven't been able to figure it out on my own.

Any ideas?

(Please go easy on me as this is my first attempt to reprogram my 8811. I was really pleased that I got it to work as desired, except for this one problem.)

TIA

(And thanks too, btw, for this great website.)

[floyd1977]

Based on your post, I don't see that you're doing anything wrong. The ToadTog should work as you expect. Keep in mind that for your "all off" function to work, you will need another ToadTog function to force toggle 1 off.

You might want to upload your IR file to the diagnosis area so someone can take a look, although I can't think of any details that you left out.

[Bebel]

Thanks for your reply.

The "all off" function [DVD/Power LKP = Phantom4] calls Phantom1 on all devices. In the case of my DUDEs, this is a DiscreteOFF command. In the case of my DVD player, however, Phantom1 is set up as follows: ToadTog toggle 1, Force Off, L4, Blank [$19 $18]. I think this is right. A long key press of the DVD power button (or any device) will clear the DVD toggle bit and send L4 to the player, shutting it down. But then I can't turn it back on again using the DVD device key (which works the first time) or the DVD/Power key (which can shut the player down once, after which it becomes unresponsive).

Another way of putting this is to say that once the DVD player has been turned off, by any key, it no longer responds to power on commands, except L4 on its own, i.e., not even L4 called by a macro.

I'm going to look at my IR file again in detail, but at the moment I'm at a dead end because I'm really not sure what to try. Any suggestions, however obvious, would be appreciated.

After I look again at my IR file, and if I can't get it to work, I'll try posting it to the diagnosis area.

Thanks.

[floyd1977]

You may be having a duration problem. A remote running an extender executes macros much more quickly than in an unextended remote, so your DVD players power function may not work in a macro. One of the experts here may be able to supply you with a modified protocol to make the duration longer for your DVD player commands.

On the other hand, I could be completely wrong.

You might try temporarily assigning your ToadTog (toggle 1) to a pressable button on remote and hold down that button, which will extend the duration for the last key in your sequence (L4). Note that you can't do this for your Power key, since this will activate your LKP.

If this works, then I think you have a duration problem.

[floyd1977]

You might also try one of the other Koss upgrades, like:

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... ile_id=246

[Capn Trips]

It sounds like :
(1) the TT flag for your DVD Power state is not being set/cleared as you expect it to; or,
(2) your macro/LKP is not calling the correct Discrete ON/OFF function (perhaps you need a DEV_DVD or a DEV_Cancel function inserted somewhere in there)

As suggested earlier, something like this is hard to troubleshoot from descriptions. It's much easier if you post the "guilty" IR file and link to it here, for someone to take a look.

[Bebel]

I haven't solved the problem, but this is getting interesting. As per Floyd1977's suggestion, I temporarily assigned toadtog 1 (toggle mode) to L1, which calls L4 and toggles the state of the toggle bit, as follows: [$11 $28 $28]. This allows me to turn the player off, but the DVD player then becomes unresponsive. I can, however, still use L4 (=$84) to turn it off and on.

Staying with L1 as a pressable toggle, next I tried [$11 $83 $83], which calls the DVD player's shift-cloaked power button. This again turns the player off, but then won't turn it back on. L4 (=$84) still functions as expected, turning the player off and on.

However, If I assign [$11 $84 $84] to DVD/L1, then this changes the volume on the receiver -- I guess because $84 is shift-vol+ on the receiver, though if the DVD player is selected, I don't know why it's changing the volume instead of power toggling (because L4, which works as a power toggle, has a keymove value of $84).

Also, you could well be right about it being a duration problem, although I have no way of testing that except through macro use. All I can say is that the macro to initially turn the player on works. Also, the keymove to turn it off works, but only the first time. Then the player becomes unresponsive. So if it`s a duration problem, it only kicks in after the player has been turned on and off.

Finally, I have an LKP on the DVD device button, which on a long press calls the L4 power toggle. This works as expected.

Synthesizing all of this, I think the problem has to be toggle 1 when set to toggle the state of the player [$11 $28 $28], though I don't know what the exact nature of the problem is. After all, L4 works as expected, as does the LKP DVD device key, which calls L4 too.

Is there a different version of ToadTog I could try, I wonder?

I will also now try the alternative Koss upgrade that you suggest.

Thanks again.

[Bebel]

Capn Trips,

Thanks. I've tested theory no. 1 as best I could. I agree that's what it sounds like, but I can't get the player back in sync, no matter what I do, so there may be more to it. Theory no. 2 sounds promising; however, the Koss KD260 has no discrete functions (as far as I'm aware). But what do you mean by DEV_DVD and DEV_CANCEL?

The Guilty IR file is here: http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=3333

Thanks!

[floyd1977]

However, If I assign [$11 $84 $84] to DVD/L1, then this changes the volume on the receiver -- I guess because $84 is shift-vol+ on the receiver, though if the DVD player is selected, I don't know why it's changing the volume instead of power toggling (because L4, which works as a power toggle, has a keymove value of $84).

That's because RECV is set as your V(olume) device in IR, and you never call V_DVD anywhere else in your IR file. I would guess this is the behavior you want, since DVD players usually don't have any kind of volume control.

Also, I think you're confusing key codes and command codes. Macros work from key codes, so you don't want to enter the hex value [$84] of the command you want to execute. Instead, you want to use the hex value [$28] for the key you want to press. If you simply add the keys to the macro by selecting them from the list in IR, you don't even have to worry about hex data, so I'm not sure why you're doing this the hard way.

When you assigned the ToadTog to L1, did you try holding down L1, as I suggested?

Did you try any of the other upgrades, per my other suggestion?

[floyd1977]

I think there is something wrong with your 0651 upgrade. Left and Up have codes mapped to them, but Right, Down and Exit do not, so my guess is that you tried to manually edit the upgrade somehow.

I don't know if this is the source of your problem, but it certainly isn't helping.

Edit: I just copied the upgrade into RM, and I'm getting the same output. Try setting your remote type to "URC-881x x3 2k" in RM. This seems to change the upgrade. With the funky upgrade, you may have been sending a command to your DVD player that affected its behavior somehow, or there are two separate issues. Do all the DVD functions work normally with your current upgrade? For example, if the Stop button actually sends the Play command to your receiver, the change I suggested will remedy the problem.

[Bebel]

Thanks floyd1977. Regarding key codes and command codes, the only reason I entered the command code was that I was at a dead end and was trying whatever I could think of to rule out problems. My original macros had key codes only in them. Putting in the command codes was an act of desperation.

I did try holding down L1 when I assigned the ToadTog to it. No effect. For the moment, I have no special reason to think it's a duration problem.

Your last suggestions sound most promising. I didn't realize that I had to change the remote type for use with the extender. You're also right that I manually changed key assignments in the Koss 0651 upgrade, although my changes were sane (I have Right, Down and Exit mapped to the appropriate keys). However, something may have got screwed up when I converted my original IR file prior to installing the extender. I'm not sure what happened there, but I'll look into it.

I will make the corrections you suggest and cross my fingers. More soon.

Thanks again.

[Capn Trips]

But what do you mean by DEV_DVD and DEV_CANCEL?

Sorry, I was channeling a different extender. I meant X_DVD and/or X_Cancel.

Unrelated digression: different extenders use different terminology and processes to do device selection. Yours uses the {buttongroup}_{device} construct, whilst other extenders use the DEV_{device} followed by a SET_{button group} sequence. In either of these, there is a method to do temporary device selection, which in the latter is simply inserting the approrpiate DEV_{device} command. In your case, it would be inserting a X_{device} command. Sorry if I confused you.

Anyhow, upon initial inspection, your file appears to be fine in the Special Protocol function setup, but I question your DVD macro. In it you have as the last step "SHIFT-DVD" which in all of the other correspnding macros you have "XSHIFT-{device}". Should this not be "XSHIFT-DVD"?

I suspect that as a result, you do not have the appropriate {button group}_DVD settings afterwards, and that may affect your ability to call the correct ToadTog signal.

EDIT: OK, I see that you use in this case the SHIFT-DVD to call an LKP which in TURN calls the XSHIFT-DVD or L4 functions.

Does the long keypress of DVD simply toggle power to your DVD player properly?

[Capn Trips]

So to continue, don't try command codes directly, use button codes.

Second, I echo floyd's advice to break things down to their minimum component steps and build from there.

So first, I would:
(1) assign your DVD/Phantoms 1 through 3 to L1 through 3; and
(2) test these three functions to see if they work/set the toggle flag correctly.

If NOT, then:
(3) Insert an X_DVD command at the beginning of each leg of the ToadTog for TT1 (you certainly can spare the memory); and
(4) test them again directly on buttons.

Once you KNOW that the ToadTog works, then use in in a simple macro (i.e. build the SHORT side of the LKP on L1 and the LONG side on L2 and test THOSE independently) and continue building from there.

Good luck.

P.S. When you figure it out, it'll be one of those "DOH!" moments

[Bebel]

Capn Trips,

No problemo about the button confusion.

To answer your question, yes, the long keypress of DVD toggles power to my DVD player properly.

I am about to go through all of the suggestions that you and floyd1977 have given me. You've both been very helpful.

More soon.

[Bebel]

Okay this is really weird.

First, I couldn't replicate floyd1977's experience with my 0651 upgrade command mappings. On my screen, everything looks all right. In any case I went back to the default 0651 upgrade (which is a little off, if you ask me, because its button names refer to things that don't exist on the manufacturer-supplied remote).

I more strongly suspect that the problem is with toggle 1, possibly caused or complicated by the weirdness of the manufacturer-supplied remote IR codes.

I followed Capn Trips suggestions, assigning my previously defined Phantom keys (the toggle 1 functions) to L1-L3. I also inserted X_DVD commands at each step of the way.

The result is that I get only intermittent success with the key presses. L1 is supposed to be a toadtog discreteOFF, L2 is supposed to be a toadtog discreteON, and L3 is supposed to be a toadtog power toggle. L4 is $84, the command code for the power button.

Here's what happens when I press L1-L4.

L4 always works to toggle power.

L2 will SOMETIMES power on the player. For example, if I turn the player off manually and hit L1 (to clear the toggle bit), L2 powers on the player. But then L1 won't power off the player, even though L2 has set the toggle bit. If I hit L1, nothing happens. But the if I hit L2 again, it powers OFF the player, which L2 is NOT supposed to do.

L1 behaves similarly.

The L3 power toggle doesn't seem to work at all.

So there is something not right with the setting and clearing of the toggle bit, it seems to me.

Does anyone have any idea why?

Is there a different version of toadtog I could try?

I've also read that the Koss KD260 IR is a bit freaky -- does anyone know anything more about this?

My new IR file is here: http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=3335

Thanks again.