Shift keys

[Jag_Man653]

Should I be able to assign an advanced code to a "shift key" on my OFA 8811 remote without using KM and IR, i.e., by using the 994 sequence on the remote keypad? I tried, but can seem to get it to work.



TIA

Ed

[johnsfine]

Yes. That should work.

What shifted key did you try? What sequence of steps did you use?

Was the key a digit? They need to be double shifted when used. I don't think they need to be double shifted when defined.

For defining a shifted ordinary key, IIRC, the sequence is:

Device key (for both source and binding)
Long press of set
994
Short press of set
EFC number
Short press of set
Key

If source device and binding device differ

Long press of set
994
Device for source
Short press of set
EFC number
Device for binding
Short press of set
Key

[Jag_Man653]

Yes, that works. Thanks!

I was trying to use a numeric key (1). I had read somewhere that 2 Sets were necessary to do the "shift" for a numeric key, so I was doing 2 Sets when trying to program it also.

I'm sure it is working because it issues the 2 blinks after the key is pressed. Only problem now is getting the right EFC for what I'm trying to do, i.e., discrete on and off for an old Mitsubishi big screen. The ones I've been trying On= 167 Off=039 don't work, as I can now see.


BTW, I think the term "shift" is a misnomer as it suggests that the Set key and the other key have to be pressed simultanelusly. I mention that just in case some other newcomer happens to see this note. I realize it's impossible to change the terminology at this late date.

Thanks again.

Ed

[The Robman]

Only problem now is getting the right EFC for what I'm trying to do, i.e., discrete on and off for an old Mitsubishi big screen. The ones I've been trying On= 167 Off=039 don't work, as I can now see.

It's always a good idea to test your EFCs before you go to the effort of assigning them to actual buttons.

To test an EFC, you simply press the SET button (don't hold it) and then type the 3-digit EFC. To simulate holding the button, you would press and hold the final digit.

BTW, I think the term "shift" is a misnomer as it suggests that the Set key and the other key have to be pressed simultanelusly. I mention that just in case some other newcomer happens to see this note. I realize it's impossible to change the terminology at this late date.

I agree, that's why we make a point of mentioning that you don't hold the SET button whenever we discuss this feature.

Out of curiosity, what would you call this feature if not SHIFT ?

[underquark]

BTW, I think the term "shift" is a misnomer as it suggests that the Set key and the other key have to be pressed simultanelusly. I mention that just in case some other newcomer happens to see this note. I realize it's impossible to change the terminology at this late date.

Ah, but isn't it true that the SHIFT key on some manual typewriters was pressed down and then the key to be shifted was pressed? Some had this and others had a press-and-hold shift as well as a shift-lock. When electric typewriters and then word processors caught on it became necessary always to press and hold the shift key and the shift-lock became "Caps Lock". So maybe the original terminology is correct after all.

[Jag_Man653]

It's always a good idea to test your EFCs before you go to the effort of assigning them to actual buttons.

To test an EFC, you simply press the SET button (don't hold it) and then type the 3-digit EFC. To simulate holding the button, you would press and hold the final digit.

I read that somewhere but couldn't make it work. Just so I'm clear, to test 037 am I supposed to press and release 0, press and release 3,
and press and hold 7, then observe the response from the device?

Out of curiosity, what would you call this feature if not SHIFT ?

Well, I guess I don't know!

Thanks.

Ed

[Capn Trips]

It's always a good idea to test your EFCs before you go to the effort of assigning them to actual buttons.

To test an EFC, you simply press the SET button (don't hold it) and then type the 3-digit EFC. To simulate holding the button, you would press and hold the final digit.

I read that somewhere but couldn't make it work. Just so I'm clear, to test 037 am I supposed to press and release 0, press and release 3,
and press and hold 7, then observe the response from the device?

Ed

To be more detailed and complete,
(1) first ensure you are in the device mode (TV, DVD, whatever) for the device that you wish to control with the EFC you wish to test.
(2) Then press and release "SET" (NOT a LONG press like it takes to get into the "SETUP" Menu, but a short press and release),
(3) then press and release the first two digits (of the three-digit EFC) for the EFC you wish to test.
(4) Then press the third digit. Upon pressing the third digit, you should see the LED on the remote illuminate indicating that the remote is transmitting - hold that as long as you feel you need to in order to get the desired response (or determine that no response is forthcoming)

[Jag_Man653]

Out of curiosity, what would you call this feature if not SHIFT ?

Now that I have thought about it a bit I think Prefix is the correct word.

Ed

[Jag_Man653]

Ah, but isn't it true that the SHIFT key on some manual typewriters was pressed down and then the key to be shifted was pressed?

I've never seen one like that, but then maybe you're older than me
(unlikely!)

[pH7_jp1]

You don't have to go back to manual typewriters - the "Shift" keys on our keyboards are the same. If I just press the "a" key I get "a". If I first press and release the "Shift" key and then the "a" key, I still get "a".

If I use the "Caps Lock" key then I get "A", but then all keys after that are caps. There isn't really a key on the keyboard that acts like the shift key on our remotes.

Just because they are both called "Shift" doesn't mean that I expect them to work the same. A friend once pointed out that he could get out of his car and start driving his motocycle and not expec the accelerator to be in the same place.

[The Robman]

Even in the remote world the SHIFT function isn't consistent. As you've discovered, the un-official SHIFT function requires that you press and release the SHIFT button (which isn't even labelled "shift") before pressing the button itself.

In addition to this, some older OFA remotes, such as the URC-9800 "Producer 8", also included an official SHIFT button. When you press the official SHIFT button, all buttons will work in shifted mode until you press SHIFT again, so it's really a CAPS LOCK type button.

[underquark]

Shift, of course, used to literally shift something. One form was carriage-shift where the whole typing carriage lifted up (ribbon and all) and this was quite heavy on some machines. Another was basket-shift where only the little metal letters were shifted - much smoother.

One difference is that pressing shift-lock on a manual typewriter generally shifts everything and not just the alphabetical characters. Also, if you press shift on a computer when caps lock is on it allows you to type lower case letters but if you press shift on a manual typewriter it generally does nothing (some release the shift-lock).

The first Remington machine only did capital letters. For a period of time the shift-keyed typewriter had competition in the form of machines with separate keys for upper and lower case but the shift key won out in the end.

The point is that the word "shifted" has changed and has been extended to refer to a new or altered function that has been obtained from one key by the associated pressing of another. Whether you press this key and then release it or press and hold wouldn't seem to matter semantically.

Now for an experiment - press both shift keys down, hold them down and type from A to Z. Different computers will give different results.

[Capn Trips]

Shift, of course, used to literally shift something. One form was carriage-shift where the whole typing carriage lifted up (ribbon and all) and this was quite heavy on some machines. Another was basket-shift where only the little metal letters were shifted - much smoother.

One difference is that pressing shift-lock on a manual typewriter generally shifts everything and not just the alphabetical characters. Also, if you press shift on a computer when caps lock is on it allows you to type lower case letters but if you press shift on a manual typewriter it generally does nothing (some release the shift-lock).

The first Remington machine only did capital letters. For a period of time the shift-keyed typewriter had competition in the form of machines with separate keys for upper and lower case but the shift key won out in the end.

The point is that the word "shifted" has changed and has been extended to refer to a new or altered function that has been obtained from one key by the associated pressing of another. Whether you press this key and then release it or press and hold wouldn't seem to matter semantically.

Now for an experiment - press both shift keys down, hold them down and type from A to Z. Different computers will give different results.

So I guess we're not going to start calling shifted functions "prefixed" functions?

And lets don't get started on "x-shifted" buttons (or is it "keys").

Shouldn't it be "ButtonMaster"?

[The Robman]

So I guess we're not going to start calling shifted functions "prefixed" functions?

Let me think about this for a moment.... NO!