KM mapping and the URC 8800

[mackado]

I'm trying to use the Pioneer elite vsx-45tx definitions on my vsx-33tx, but under the 8800 remote KM mapping for AMP/TUNER to many direct keys are shifted (@) using up precious memory in IR, I read on KM's README file that any KM 'device type' can be used (with correct remote definition)and therefore used 'laserdisc' that only shifts(@) a couple of keys, after downloading to IR and assigning upgrade to device 'TUNER" the upload to the remote cause it to hang up/crash and display "memory error", after remote download to IR noticed all 'keymoves ' were gone, reconstructed Remote again and went back to KM using 'AMP" instead of 'Laser' and it loads fine but still have the shift key (@) problem and to many key moves, and this @keys don't even work in my remote even when using the 'setup' (as shift) key.

Any Ideas why this is not working? Any other way to re-map for this remote without the @ keys?

[Mark Pierson]

many direct keys are shifted (@) using up precious memory

The buttons preceded by "@" are not shifted. That indicates that the button is not part of the default key map and will instead create a key move when a function is assigned to it.

[mackado]

Ok Mark , I should have said 'key moves' instead of 'shifted' it was late.

KM mapping for the 8800 remote under AMP/TUNER maps as @ (key moves) many keys that don't need to be 'moved', keys like
Enter,Prog, PIP on/off,pip swap, pip move, pip freeze,clear,slow,slow -,slow +, and x2 can be used without @. Is this a KM design limitation for my remote?

If I use under KM DVD/laser device type key mapping (to configure a TUNER/AMP), only the sleep and clear keys are @(keymoved)so I can use all the others, but even after assigning under IR as the 'TUNER' key the remote upload failed, is this failure normal if I used this shortcut? should it work?

Ps: this @ key moves don't seem to work even if I used them,in the old JP1 forum someone had the same problem and turn out he was using the wrong IR version, but I beleive Im using the latest revisions. IR 5.06 KM 8.22(will upgrade to 8.23)

[Mark Pierson]

KM mapping for the 8800 remote under AMP/TUNER maps as @ (key moves) many keys that don't need to be 'moved', keys like Enter,Prog, PIP on/off,pip swap, pip move, pip freeze,clear,slow,slow -,slow +, and x2 can be used without @. Is this a KM design limitation for my remote?

As far as I can tell, those buttons are NOT part of the default key map for the AMP device. Therefore, the only way to assign codes to them is via key moves.

If I use under KM DVD/laser device type key mapping (to configure a TUNER/AMP), only the sleep and clear keys are @(keymoved)so I can use all the others, but even after assigning under IR as the 'TUNER' key the remote upload failed, is this failure normal if I used this shortcut? should it work?

You need to make sure the device button is assigned the SAME device type/setup code as the upgrade.

[Mark Pierson]

I've taken a closer look at what KM is doing with respect to the 8800 button mapping...

many keys that don't need to be 'moved', keys like
Enter,Prog, PIP on/off,pip swap, pip move, pip freeze,clear,slow,slow -,slow +, and x2 can be used without @.

One of us is confused here. What makes you think those buttons are part of the default key map for the Amp/Tuner device type? As I said in my prior post, as far as I can tell, the KM mapping for the 8800's Amp device is correct; I verified it with the current RDF (which IR uses, so it's in sync with KM).

Is this a KM design limitation for my remote?

This is NOT a KM limitation... you'll need to blame UEI for this one!

When they design a remote, they decide which buttons will be used by which device types, probably taking into account that the button names need to at least be an approximation of the intended use. The best example I can give is buttons like PIP. Typically, they're only used by TV's (and maybe some VCR's), but aren't used by Amp devices. So, in most remotes that have PIP buttons, they're NOT part of any map except for TV (and possibly VCR).

There is NOTHING KM, IR, nor any other JP1 tool can do about those default maps. They're hard-coded into the remote's ROM and cannot be changed. The best KM can (and does) do is allow you to create key moves on the non-standard buttons so that you don't have to do them manually in IR or on the remote itself.

If I use under KM DVD/laser device type key mapping (to configure a TUNER/AMP), only the sleep and clear keys are @(keymoved)so I can use all the others

Open KM, select the 8800 remote, and take a look at the [Layout] sheet. You'll see the default key maps for each device type. For any given device, the buttons listed there are the only ones directly available to an upgrade. Anything else needs to be done with a key move.

but even after assigning under IR as the 'TUNER' key the remote upload failed, is this failure normal if I used this shortcut? should it work?

We need to determine what the failure is.

Did you change the device type AFTER pasting the code into IR? If so, that's only going to confuse IR and probably cause the upgrade to fail.

Did you set the appropriate device button (on the General tab) to the same device type/setup code as the upgrade?

Did IR prompt you about the key moves needing to be bound to a device? If so, did you select that proper device (to match the device button it was assigned to)?

[mackado]

I've taken a closer look at what KM is doing with respect to the 8800 button mapping...

many keys that don't need to be 'moved', keys like
Enter,Prog, PIP on/off,pip swap, pip move, pip freeze,clear,slow,slow -,slow +, and x2 can be used without @.

One of us is confused here. What makes you think those buttons are part of the default key map for the Amp/Tuner device type? As I said in my prior post, as far as I can tell, the KM mapping for the 8800's Amp device is correct; I verified it with the current RDF (which IR uses, so it's in sync with KM).
It's me who's confused, Mark Now I get it, I was under the wrong impression that all keys in my remote should be 'game' under all Devices, makes sense now why they are not.

Is this a KM design limitation for my remote?

This is NOT a KM limitation... you'll need to blame UEI for this one!

Is user(me) understanding limitations

When they design a remote, they decide which buttons will be used by which device types, probably taking into account that the button names need to at least be an approximation of the intended use. The best example I can give is buttons like PIP. Typically, they're only used by TV's (and maybe some VCR's), but aren't used by Amp devices. So, in most remotes that have PIP buttons, they're NOT part of any map except for TV (and possibly VCR).

There is NOTHING KM, IR, nor any other JP1 tool can do about those default maps. They're hard-coded into the remote's ROM and cannot be changed. The best KM can (and does) do is allow you to create key moves on the non-standard buttons so that you don't have to do them manually in IR or on the remote itself.

I got it now, unfortunately as far as I can tell this @ key moves done in KM don't work on my 8800 for some reason, I may have to experiment again later on IR, for now I'm bypassing them and saving the memory until after I see how much the MACROS will require...

If I use under KM DVD/laser device type key mapping (to configure a TUNER/AMP), only the sleep and clear keys are @(keymoved)so I can use all the others

Open KM, select the 8800 remote, and take a look at the [Layout] sheet. You'll see the default key maps for each device type. For any given device, the buttons listed there are the only ones directly available to an upgrade. Anything else needs to be done with a key move.

Yes, I found out the hard way, used 'DVD' mapping to program 'Amp' and many keys didn't work, now I know why.

but even after assigning under IR as the 'TUNER' key the remote upload failed, is this failure normal if I used this shortcut? should it work?

We need to determine what the failure is.

Did you change the device type AFTER pasting the code into IR? If so, that's only going to confuse IR and probably cause the upgrade to fail.

Yes,this was the problem, I was using an 'Amp' code attached to 'DVD' device, after figuring this out still some functions didn't work because of the UEI mapping design under 'AMP'.

Did you set the appropriate device button (on the General tab) to the same device type/setup code as the upgrade?


Did IR prompt you about the key moves needing to be bound to a device? If so, did you select that proper device (to match the device button it was assigned to)?

Yes, this last two I got right.

This Pioneer Elite tuner/amp has given me a beating fro two days now, the folder in JP1 contains three definitions and after much trail and error only the 'Combo' definitions work for me under code 2003 with many limitations, but is better than before! Thanks

I need to learn to use this 'quote' thingy too