369006 New Remote URC-3660

[mathdon]

@MrMoody
Did you really mean what you have posted as your revised [Buttons] section? It has no Skip labels and the buttons with the standard names "fast fwd" and "rewind" are different from those with the display names FastFwd and Rew. To me this seems confusing. You also appear to disagree with HamburgerHelper1 who has found that 71 is SkipFwd and 72 is SkipBack.

I would like to incorporate this discovery into the issued RDF, if the two of you can agree on how it should be done.

@mdavej
That URC3680 is a great find, too. I see that the Activities section in its manual includes settings that involve the SOUND device that agree with those found by clumsy74 involving Dev8 in experimenting with the URC-3661. That rounds off nicely the understanding of the activity settings for the 3661 and 3660.

It seems to me now that it would be safe to create an RDF for the URC-3680 on the assumption that it will have the same signature as the 3660, by cloning the 3660 RDF and just changing the names of its two phantom devices to AUX and SOUND. Do you agree?

[mdavej]

@mathdon,

Agreed about the phantom devices and the 3680 RDF.

Regarding 71 and 72, when the correct functionality is confirmed, I think the RDF and Map should work like the OARUSB04G where we made 2 squares on the map for each button. I would make the outermost skip and the inner FFWD/REW.

I understand including LKP and SKP in the names, but I think this will only confuse others. But it would be nice to have some way to indicate which are long and short. I'm at a loss as how best to do that. It really does no harm using more descriptive names for the buttons as long as the alias in quotes does the auto-mapping correctly.

[HamburgerHelper1]

on my device a Magnavox HDD/DVD Recorder using setup code 0675 Buttons 71 and 72 skip forward and back one chapter in the program. The OEM Remote has these symbols ->>| , and, |<<- for those OBC codes, the FastFwd and Rew are different OBC'S as observed using Irscrutinizer. Buttons 71 and 72 will work on built in setup codes but not upgrades , at least i haven't gotten them to work that way

[dkraines]

@mathdon,

Regarding 71 and 72, when the correct functionality is confirmed, I think the RDF and Map should work like the OARUSB04G where we made 2 squares on the map for each button. I would make the outermost skip and the inner FFWD/REW.

I understand including LKP and SKP in the names, but I think this will only confuse others. But it would be nice to have some way to indicate which are long and short. I'm at a loss as how best to do that. It really does no harm using more descriptive names for the buttons as long as the alias in quotes does the auto-mapping correctly.

I can confirm 71 and 72 map to long key presses on Rew and FastFwd keys. On a DVD device I made from scratch, I had the long press 71/72 mapped as chapter skip back and forward, and it worked. Agree it would be good to identify it as a long press on the remote mapping diagram somehow, how about color, like yellow (as is now) for the short press, red for the long? It's probably confusing no matter how this is implemented.

[HamburgerHelper1]

So we agree then that the buttons are chapter skip back and forward and Next track on a Music Cd. I suppose some devices may call this "Next" or "Skip" for forward

[MrMoody]

@MrMoody
Did you really mean what you have posted as your revised [Buttons] section? It has no Skip labels and the buttons with the standard names "fast fwd" and "rewind" are different from those with the display names FastFwd and Rew. To me this seems confusing. You also appear to disagree with HamburgerHelper1 who has found that 71 is SkipFwd and 72 is SkipBack.

I would like to incorporate this discovery into the issued RDF, if the two of you can agree on how it should be done.

He and I both have it right, 71 is LKP Forward, 72 is LKP Reverse. I double checked this.

Yes, I meant the way I did it, the LKPs (71 and 72) MUST LOGICALLY be FF and Rewind (and the factory upgrades are done that way, check the OBCs!) because some devices need repeats (i.e. hold button to continue rewinding), and there is no way to send repeats from the short key press, only the long. In fact, some of the upgrades have OBCs on 71 and 72 (the LKPs) but NOT on 0F and 11 (the SKPs), presumably because of this. And therefore the SKPs are the skips.

It's been a while since I messed with the OARUSB04G but it seems like that one was backwards in this regard, easily worked around once understood, but nevertheless backwards.

Sometimes I'm not the best at explaining something, so I hope you can follow my logic.

Beyond that, the button naming is a matter of opinion and doesn't matter much to me.

[MrMoody]

Oh, one more little pick: the buttons aren't labeled with skip symbols, only rew FF symbols: << >> so that's what I labeled them, and there IS another button labeled simply REPLAY, which is normally Skip Back to add to the confusion.

[HamburgerHelper1]

I think I understand what you mean and you are confusing me
My recorder with built in setup code the standard FF button one short press puts it into FF a second press and it speeds up a little bit and the same with a third press it goes in stages.
A long key press of it and it skips a chapter
and a side note here
I just tested and surprised that I could put a function on the Light Key specific to each device. I have never seen a function put on a light key before

[MrMoody]

It wouldn't surprise me if code 0675 is done wrong (perhaps borrowed from older remotes) and not even UEI can get it consistent. Or it may be your device does nothing with repeats on FF & REW. Do a little test if you like.

I assume you have the original remote for the Magnavox, and it has separate >> and >>| keys.

Put a CD in it and Play it. IME CDs behave more consistently than video. Then try a DVD too if you like. On some players that have multi-speed scanning, holding the key quickly jumps to maximum speed.

Using the OEM remote:
Tap >> and note what happens.
Hold down >> and note what happens, then release it and note that reaction.
Tap >>| and it should jump to the next track.

Now with the 3660 set to DVD 0675:
Tap >> note behavior.
Hold >> and release as soon as it reacts, note.
Now hold it for a few seconds and note.

Let us know what you get.

[HamburgerHelper1]

On the OEM remote the butttons are separate and holding FF it will advance to the 3rd speed step.
Holding skip button it just does one skip
On the 3660 tapping ff does the 1st step of FF
Holding down Hold >> and release as soon as it reacts it skips one chapter
Holding for a few seconds it just does the one chapter skip

[mdavej]

I agree that button names should reflect the graphic on the button, not necessarily the function, which apparently varies by device. So I vote for the primary (short press) buttons to be named "FFwd" and "Rew" (aliases "fast fwd" and "rewind") and the LKPs (71 and 72) to be named "FFwd_LKP" and "Rew_LKP" (aliases "next track" and "prev track").

[MrMoody]

@HH1:

So by UEI putting the skips on the LKP instead of SKP, you've lost a function: advancing to maximum speed scan in one key press.

One more try to simplify what I'm getting at:
The SKPs cannot do repeating signals.
The LKPs can.
A repeating chapter skip would be pretty useless or even annoying if it worked at all, and most don't.
A repeating FF/REW is useful on many devices.

@mdavej:

Absolutely agree on names matching button markings. Your names seconded. So, really the above argument about skip vs FF/REW is moot.

A small quibble on aliases: they are used to convert button functions on one remote to another, although admittedly this is an ancient feature that has never worked all that well, so not that important.

[MrMoody]

a side note here
I just tested and surprised that I could put a function on the Light Key specific to each device. I have never seen a function put on a light key before

Another nice find. You could actually set that up to turn your IR-controlled room lights on and off.

[HamburgerHelper1]

I understand the
SKPs cannot do repeating signals. The LKPs can.
But I am afraid in the future a user may get confused with labeling "FFwd_LKP" and "Rew_LKP" with the extenders that add "LKP" to a remote.
But lack of anything better this labeling scheme is fine with me

[mdavej]

The average user has no idea LKPs exist. Physical skip buttons don't exist on this remote either. So I think 71 and 72 need names that are different from physical buttons but also describe how they work. LKP is the most succinct way I can think of. How about "FFwd(LongPress)" or "FFwd(Held)"?