Xbox noname remote.

freebase · Post by **freebase** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 8:32 pm

Hi guys,

I bought a nice, cheap $10 DVD/remote from ebay for my Xbox. It's a crappy little noname remote with dark green text printed on the case next to the various buttons - the text is basically unreadable. But the thing works and enables the DVD functions of my Xbox for cheap.

It's now time to dump this remote and use my URC-6800 instead. The problems are this....

The Xbox upgrade in yahoo does not appear to be compatible with this noname remote. (Yes, I have downloaded upgrades before and have created my own in the past using IR and KM).

I would like some assistance. I have learned a number of keys to my 6800 and downloaded them to IR, but IR basically doesn't recognize the codes.

These are the devices that IR thinks it sees on one key or another:

Protocol Device OBC EFC
---------- --------- ------ -------
Emerson 26 55 215
?Matsui 6 127
JVC2 0 64 165
Old Panasonic 26 30 217...

Usually IR reports that there are sections it can't analyze.

Here is some raw data I get from buttons that work on my 6800....

This is the skip back button:

+510 -532 +1450 -528 +510 -1560 +1450 -528 +510 -1560 +510 -1560 +510 -1560 +1450 -528 +510 -1560 +510 -1560 +1450 -528 +510 -1560 +510 -1560 +1450 -528 +510 -11074 +510 -532 +1450 -528 +510 -1560 +1450 -528 +510 -1560 +510 -1560 +510 -1560 +1450 -528 +510 -1560 +510 -1560 +1450 -528 +510 -1560 +510 -1560 +1450 -528 +510 -130560

This is the select button:

+510 -532 +1450 -528 +510 -1560 +1450 -528 +510 -1560 +510 -1560 +510 -1560 +510 -1560 +1450 -528 +510 -1560 +1450 -528 +510 -1560 +510 -1560 +1450 -528 +510 -11074 +510 -532 +1450 -528 +510 -1560 +1450 -528 +510 -1560 +510 -1560 +510 -1560 +510 -1560 +1450 -528 +510 -1560 +1450 -528 +510 -1560 +510 -1560 +1450 -528 +510 -130560

This is the stop button:

+510 -532 +1450 -530 +510 -1560 +1450 -530 +510 -1560 +510 -1560 +510 -1560 +1450 -530 +510 -1560 +510 -1560 +1450 -530 +510 -1560 +1450 -530 +510 -1560 +510 -11074 +510 -532 +1450 -530 +510 -1560 +1450 -530 +510 -1560 +510 -1560 +510 -1560 +1450 -530 +510 -1560 +510 -1560 +1450 -530 +510 -1560 +1450 -530 +510 -1560 +510 -130560

Since IR is all over the map, I don't know what to do. Any ideas anyone?

Any help would be greatly appreciated since using this crappy noname remote is no way to live.... and of course there isn't enough memory to learn all of the keys...

Thanks,

Gordon

johnsfine · Post by **johnsfine** » Sat May 01, 2004 7:33 am

I'm pretty sure we've seen this before and someone created a protocol for it with PB. I guess I forgot to add support for it in DecodeIR.

As usual when you have a protocol that DecodeIR can't decode, you should save an eeprom image containing several learned signals and upload it to the diagnosis folder in the Yahoo group.

That will help us match things up with the old thread on this remote (if the other experts similarly don't remember which thread it was) or we could redo the work of figuring it out if that's easier than finding it. Maybe this time I have time to fix DecodeIR (I need the eeprom image of learned signals for that anyway).

If I'm remembering correctly, last time this was discussed the brand name of the little remote was significant in the thread. If you have that name, it would make the old thread easy to find.

Just to be sure the assumptions I'm making about your post are correct, please verify:

1) Your xbox doesn't natively receive any IR signal.

2) The thing you bought includes both an IR receiver/decoder that plugs into the xbox to let it receive an IR signal, and a remote to send that signal.

freebase · Post by **freebase** » Sun May 02, 2004 11:29 pm

Hi Johnsfine,

Thanks for your response! I've got a whole bunch of information for you - I'm just not sure how useful it will be.

Don't feel bad about DecodeIR not decoding these signals very well - my URC-6800 also has a lot of trouble with the signals.

You are correct in your assumptions. I bought both the remote and the IR receiver/eye which plugs into one of the ports on the front of the xbox. I had thought that the no name xbox remote would use the same signal/eye combination as the real Microsoft product, but this does not appear to be the case.

In terms of identifying the product I bought... I'm serious, it is a no name remote. No identifying name of any kind on the package or the remote.

Here's a pic of the thing:

I even took apart the remote to see what I could find on the inside. I found the text "pg8012A#1" on the board - that was it.

I learned as many keys as I could to my URC-6800 and downloaded to IR. I posted the file to the Diagnosis Area of the Yahoo JP1 group. The file is called NoNameXBOX.txt

Here is the status of my learned keys:

- No number keys would learn.
- The Info key would not learn.
- The following keys appear to function properly:
PLAY
REW
SELECT
- The following keys fire twice per press:
FF
CH- (skip back)
PAUSE
LEFT
RIGHT
- The following keys do no function properly (no responce from the Xbox or an error message):
CH+ (skip forward)
STOP
UP
DOWN
MENU
EXIT
DISPLAY
MACRO (title)

Well, I guess that's all the info I can provide. I will continue to try to learn more functions to the remote successfully. I'll let you know if I have any luck. You mentioned PB in your response - I'm guessing I should leave Protocol Builder to the experts

Thanks for your attention - any help is greatly appreciated,

Gordon[/img]

Post by **The Robman** » Mon May 03, 2004 6:11 am

I can fill in the blank for you as far as the brand is concerned, because that remote is definitely an RCA remote. Have you tried using DVD/0522 to control the xBox?

jon_armstrong · Post by **jon_armstrong** » Mon May 03, 2004 8:28 am

It looks like:

{37k,500,msb}<1,-3|3,-1>(1,-1,D:5,F:8,1,-21,1,-1,D:5,F:8,1,-246)+

A number of the learned commands are corrupted from what looks like weak batteries. I can create the first segment with PB and that will probably work, but it will be later today before I get to it.

Gordon, try replacing the batteries in your remotes and try the learns again. The ones you originally posted look good.

jon_armstrong · Post by **jon_armstrong** » Mon May 03, 2004 10:00 am

Ok, I got a little time. Here is a device and protocol upgrade. The PB file is also included but FYI only. Use the device and protocol upgrade in the KM Master file only (XBox-KM.txt). I forgot that I can use the alt-lead out so I created something pretty close to the protocol.

Here are the files for a 6800 that you can paste into IR directly:

Upgrade Code 0 = 0F D1 (Cable/2001)
69 00 8A A0 21 A0 0F 26 28 29 2A 43 45 49 4A 4C
45 4C 4A 83 29
End

Upgrade Protocol 0 = 01 69 (S3C8)
3F 95 11 8B 19 85 B5 80 20 05 08 02 EE 00 E6 00
FA 02 DA 16 12 00 FA 00 E6 FF 03 FF FF DC 8D 01
33
End

Most of the commands are on the numeral keys, here is the list:

0 up
1 left
2 dn
3 select
4 right
5 rew
6 play
7 skip back
8 stop
9 pause
power=macro

Give these a try and if they work, re-learn the missing ones and Ill give you the OBC and you can re-label everything correctly in KM Master.

johnsfine · Post by **johnsfine** » Mon May 03, 2004 10:18 am

jon_armstrong wrote: A number of the learned commands are corrupted from what looks like weak batteries.

I hope you're right.

Several of the learned signals are a perfect clean fit for your IRP description of the signal.

Other learned signals contain strong hints of weak batteries in the original remote, so they are a corruption of something. But they don't look like a corruption of the signals described by that IRP. They look like a corruption of something that would be a slightly different structure even if not corrupted.

I hope all that happens just from weak batteries. The other two obvious theories are:
1) The original remote itself is intermitently defective.
2) The protocol has a second (or more) basic structure, which has a higher overall duty cycle (places a harder demand on the battery) so it really is what a looks like: a corruption of a slightly different signal structure.

johnsfine · Post by **johnsfine** » Mon May 03, 2004 10:23 am

The Robman wrote:I can fill in the blank for you as far as the brand is concerned, because that remote is definitely an RCA remote. Have you tried using DVD/0522 to control the xBox?

Jon seems to be on track with this (and well ahead of me, which I'm glad of, given my continuing computer problems).

I want to make sure Gordon is not thrown off by Rob's reply. Rob is usually right. Not this time. This signal is definitely not the RCA DVD signal normally used with an xbox.

jon_armstrong · Post by **jon_armstrong** » Mon May 03, 2004 11:07 am

johnsfine wrote:Other learned signals contain strong hints of weak batteries in the original remote, so they are a corruption of something. But they don't look like a corruption of the signals described by that IRP. They look like a corruption of something that would be a slightly different structure even if not corrupted.

I hope all that happens just from weak batteries. The other two obvious theories are:
1) The original remote itself is intermitently defective.
2) The protocol has a second (or more) basic structure, which has a higher overall duty cycle (places a harder demand on the battery) so it really is what a looks like: a corruption of a slightly different signal structure.

I hadn't carefully read Gordon's description of the learning problems. I had decoded the three original commands a few days ago and dropped the new learned commands into that format. So as usual, you have a good point. The repeat segments may be a problem. I did get all but two commands to fit into my protocol definition, but that involved some guesswork.

Gordon, also try learning the commands (that you couldn't learn at all) with a hard tap rather than holding them down. Press the key to be leaned to in the 6800, get the rapid blinking and then hard tap and release the OEM remote. (Please replace the batteries first, though)

Post by **The Robman** » Mon May 03, 2004 11:19 am

johnsfine wrote:I want to make sure Gordon is not thrown off by Rob's reply. Rob is usually right. Not this time. This signal is definitely not the RCA DVD signal normally used with an xbox.

Just to clarify, so you're not thrown off by John's reply, I merely stated that the remote is an RCA remote, and I stand by that. Given that the remote is an RCA remote, I then followed up by asking if the user has tried the RCA DVD/0522 code, which is usually the one that works the xbox. I am not claiming that the learned signals (which I haven't even looked at) are RCA.

I would still like to know if the DVD/0522 code has been tried. I'm not saying that it will work, and I know the signals are different to those learned, but I'd still like to eliminate it. It wouldn't be the first time that a device was programmed to respond to more than one set of signals.

freebase · Post by **freebase** » Mon May 03, 2004 12:08 pm

Wow! What an incredible amount of thinking about this. I appreciate all of the help.

I will have access to my remotes in a few hours and will try all of the suggestions.

I doubt there is a battery problem with the original remote since it still controls the Xbox perfectly well and I just put new batteries in last week. But I will of course give that a whirl just in case.

I also doubt that the RCA DVD device will work, but I will try that too. I had already tried the Xbox codes posted to yahoo previously.

Thanks for all your help everyone - I will post my results in a few hours.

freebase · Post by **freebase** » Mon May 03, 2004 5:07 pm

Awesome jon_armstrong! The codes you gave me worked like a charm. The only buttons that didn't work were 0 (up) and 2 (down) - but I didn't give you functional ones for those in the first place. All other buttons worked flawlessly.

As requested, I posted a new file to the yahoo diagnosis page called NoNameXBOX-2.txt. I had a much better time learning codes today for some reason. The remotes just seemed to want to behave. I didn't bother learning any of the keys that you provided in your new protocol. The new file contains most of the other keys now. I had three keys which still would not learn (CH+[skip fwd], Macro[Title], Macro2[Info], 2, 0). Changing batteries didn't help this situation - perhaps I can guess a code and fill in the blanks later.

The following keys are part of the new dump and work:

FF
Up
Down
Menu
Exit
Display (sends two per press)
1
3
4 (sends two per press)
5
6
7
8
9 (sends two per press)

I hope this helps.

As per The Robman's suggestion, I tried DVD/0522 - it didn't yield any results.

Thanks for your help everyone!

Gordon

jon_armstrong · Post by **jon_armstrong** » Wed May 05, 2004 5:42 pm

I decoded this but the board was down so here is what I found. I think the protocol is really:

{37k,500,msb}<1,-3|3,-1>(1,-1,D:4,F:8,~P:1,1,-21,1,-1,D:4,F:8,~P:1,1,-246)+

Where P=XOR of all the bits taken one at a time or a parity bit and ~P is the complement. That is the case in everything I decoded except for "down". But if you assume the bottom bit is some sort of check bit, then the numerals line up. Also the bottom bit of what I was calling device really looks like the top bit of function. One of the tricks in PB is that bytes less than 8-bits always start from the left so in this case we have to multiply 21 or 20 by 8 for 168 or 160. This means for the time being, you need to create a second device upgrade for the Numerals only change device from 160n to 168.

The columns are to illustrate what the bits look like. The first column is 20 or 21 the device number, the second column is OBC for KM Master purposes, then the 5-bits I call device and the 8-bits I call function. OBC' is the real OBC if I'm right that the bottom bit is some sort of check bit.

For testing ignore everthing but column 2 which you enter into KM Master, the rest is just to simplify the analysis for the other experts who may see patterns that I don't. I guessed at the missing numerals and Zero will probably be either be 0 or 10. Let me know what you find in testing these commands

DEVICE in KM=168
DEV OBC DEV Function -- P OBC'
21 000 1010 1 0000000 0 128 0
21 003 1010 1 0000001 1 129 1
21 005 1010 1 0000010 1 130 2
21 006 1010 1 0000011 0 131 3
21 009 1010 1 0000100 1 132 4
21 010 1010 1 0000101 0 133 5
21 012 1010 1 0000110 0 134 6
21 015 1010 1 0000111 1 135 7
21 017 1010 1 0001000 1 136 8
21 018 1010 1 0001001 0 137 9
21 020 1010 1 0001010 0 138 10

DEVICE in KM=160
20 069 1010 0 0100010 1 034 play
20 067 1010 0 0100001 1 033 rew
20 073 1010 0 0100100 1 036 ch-
20 074 1010 0 0100101 0 037 stop
20 076 1010 0 0100110 0 038 pause
20 041 1010 0 0010100 1 020 select
20 040 1010 0 0010100 0 020 down -- doesn't have the parity bit correct
20 042 1010 0 0010101 0 021 right
20 038 1010 0 0010011 0 019 left
20 131 1010 0 1000001 1 065 macro

Post by **The Robman** » Wed May 05, 2004 10:02 pm

That's good work Jon. When I get a chance I will modify your protocol so that it generates the XOR bit.

freebase · Post by **freebase** » Wed May 05, 2004 10:57 pm

Your running now jon_armstrong! But I can't keep up. I have never used PB and really don't understand how protocols work (perhaps now would be a good time for me to explore the forums and learn).

I don't know what to do with the protocol (pseudocode?) that you provided on the second line.

And I figure I need to do something before pasting those OBC codes into KM.....

More clues would be greatly appreciated. What you posted last time worked like a charm and I could actually use my limited experience to get it done.

Thanks again for all this amazing work,

Gordon