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Programming the FAV/SCAN button

 
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

streetskater wrote:
Do we have a hardware fix for the fav/scan button on the 2116/2117.
We haven't bothered because we have a software fix.
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streetskater



Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 75
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob,
I'm aware of two possible fixes for Fav/scan on the 2117:
One is built in to the Extender2 features--which extender I haven't yet used. I probably just haven't hit enough walls to mandate it yet and find the learning capabilities too valuable to give up (my remotes are ALWAYS works-in-progress**).

Two is the fav/scan remapping available in Special Protocols--which is sometimes useful but has too many restrictions for what I need--When I really need all my buttons I'm almost always in protocol upgrade territory.

The above isn't intended as a complaint--just checking to make sure I'm looking at all current options.

**This combined with the intrinsic complications of a JP1 customized environment pretty much guarantees that I'm the only person on the planet that knows how to turn lights on in my home. I'm sure it will be well documented in the divorce proceedings Smile
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

streetskater wrote:
learning capabilities too valuable to give up (my remotes are ALWAYS works-in-progress**).


You can always disable the extender, do some learning, download the results and reinstall the extender.

streetskater wrote:

The above isn't intended as a complaint--just checking to make sure I'm looking at all current options.


If you want the hardware remapping solution, it exists. No one has gone to the trouble of checking all the physical details on the 2117 PCB and picking the best cut and jumper point and taking pictures and writing a description. You could be the first. (Though I think extenders are easier and better, so there might not be a second).

If you understand the idea of scan and sense lines (in keyboard decoding), and you trace the ones used by the pad for the Fav/Scan key, it should be pretty obvious what to cut and jumper.

IIRC, the keycodes in the RDF are one greater than the physical values, so you would subtract 1 from a keycode, and convert to octal and the two resulting digits are the sense and scan numbers of the key.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

streetskater wrote:
I'm aware of two possible fixes for Fav/scan on the 2117: One is built in to the Extender2 features--which extender I haven't yet used.

Using an extender is certainly the simplest solution as it removes all special handling on all of the buttons. It then gives you the ability to program each button as you see fit.

streetskater wrote:
I probably just haven't hit enough walls to mandate it yet and find the learning capabilities too valuable to give up (my remotes are ALWAYS works-in-progress**).

If you mean that you still want to be able to use the remote to learn signals for the purpose of decoding them so you can build upgrades, loading an extender is not an irreversable process. You can always re-load your current memory image to remove the extender temporarily.

If you mean that you still have some learned signals that you have not decoded, post the info in a seperate thread and we'll help you decode them.

streetskater wrote:
Two is the fav/scan remapping available in Special Protocols--which is sometimes useful but has too many restrictions for what I need--When I really need all my buttons I'm almost always in protocol upgrade territory.

This is the main other method. If the protocols in question are hacked protocols, KM will automatically modify them to let you program the FAV/SCAN button if you assign a function to it. It doesn't do this for the official protocols though, so if you are using these, let us know which ones and we can probably fix them to let you program the FAV/SCAN button.

streetskater wrote:
**This combined with the intrinsic complications of a JP1 customized environment pretty much guarantees that I'm the only person on the planet that knows how to turn lights on in my home. I'm sure it will be well documented in the divorce proceedings Smile

If this is true, it means you haven't done a very good job of programming your remote. While the process of programming the remote using JP1 can be complicated, if the remote is programmed well, using the remote should NOT be complicated. It sounds like your programming fails the WAF test.

Regardless of how complicated the programming is, with the use of extenders, device combiners, etc, etc you should be able to say to the rest of your family, things like...

Press DVD to watch a DVD

Where pressing the "DVD" button would ...
1) Turn on the TV
2) Select the correct input for DVD on the TV
3) Turn on the stereo receiver
4) Select the correct sound source for DVD on the stereo
5) Turn on the DVD player
6) Leave the remote in DVD mode, where the VOLUME buttons work the stereo and the rest all work the DVD player.
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streetskater



Joined: 18 Feb 2004
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Location: NYC

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK then you talked me into using Extender2. I just got these 2117 remotes. The first order of business was to duplicate the functionality I had from my 1994's & 1995's. That's pretty much done. Ultimately the goal with JP1, at least for me, is to have the greatest level of control over every button in every bank. It sounds like you're saying Extender2 is the closest I'm gonna get to that.
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streetskater



Joined: 18 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:
If the protocols in question are hacked protocols, KM will automatically modify them to let you program the FAV/SCAN button if you assign a function to it.


Rob,
I'm looking at the ReplayTV(Advanced) protocol for the 2117. If I map to Cable then, as you indicate above, I have the option of assigning code to the FAV/SCAN button. If I map to Video Acc, which should have the same layout as Cable, then I don't have that option. I notice that the mapping is actually taken care of in the protocol code and NOT the device upgrade code.

Oh wait, it's that Cable, TV, VCR restriction that exists in the special protocol mapping of FAV/SCAN--since those would be the only devices the remote designers would anticipate needing a FAV/SCAN feature. Is that restriction at a hardware level?
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's what's behind it. I don't recall exactly what restrictions are in the 15-2117 (as it's an LCD remote), but for the 15-1994 you do need to be using a mode like CBL (which I am for my ReplayTV).

On my 15-2117 I'm also using the hacked Replay protocol and I have the FAV/SCAN button programmed. I'm using the CBL, SAT and AUX buttons for three different Replays and as I recall, the FAV/SCAN button is working in all three modes. However, I don't recall what device modes I used for the upgrades.
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streetskater



Joined: 18 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well looking at an "official" protocol that doesn't allow for FAV/SCAN but DOES have a protocol code associated with it (like the Sony Combined)--and looking at the Special Protocl for FAV/SCAN and how the protocol code changed for the ReplayTV Advanced when FAV/SCAN was being mapped...seems like I could almost figure out how to hack the Sony Combined protocol code to map a specific hex to the FAV/SCAN for those allowed deviced---does that seem possible?

Edited to add:
Then again maybe not. The Sony Combined being a 2 byte protocol seems to present some complications.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want to try it yourself, you could see how the Device Combiner protocol changes when you assign something to the FAV/SCAN protocol. The DC uses 2 bytes.
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streetskater



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob,
Do you actually have this worked out in your head and you're just trying to see how my problem solving skills are progressing---or is this uncharted territory for this Sony Combined?

I'm not quite willing to yell uncle if this is new stuff but don't hold back on me Smile I'm only asking 'cause you were all over the 2 byte consideration as though you'd already been there.....
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, here's the background. As you know, the fav/scan special protocol only works when the protocol being used by the main upgrade is built into the ROM. So, I went through KM and modified all of the hacked protocols (ie, those which we have written and are therefore guaranteed not to be built into the ROM). I added logic to the way KM handles them so that if you assign a function to the fav/scan button, KM will add a small section of assembler code to the protocol upgrade to replicate what the special protocol would have done.

I wrote this new logic in such a way that it supports both 1 and 2 byte variable data (and maybe more than that, I forget).

I couldn't replicate this for the official protocols because sometimes they're built in, sometimes they're not.

What I'm suggesting to you is that if you look at the Device Combiner protocol (which uses 2-byte variable data) both before you assign a function to fav/scan and after, you will see the additional logic that appears. IR.exe disassembles the data for you, so it should be easy to spot it. (Note: make sure you have your remote selected in KM when you do this, as the code changes slightly based on the selected remote).

You could then look at the protocol code for the Sony combo and see if you can just slot the code in. Your earlier posts gave me the impression that this was something you might be able to handle yourself, or you're at least willing to give it a go. If you would like me to do it for you, just say so, it shouldn't be too difficult.
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streetskater



Joined: 18 Feb 2004
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Location: NYC

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:
Your earlier posts gave me the impression that this was something you might be able to handle yourself, or you're at least willing to give it a go. If you would like me to do it for you, just say so, it shouldn't be too difficult.


I definitely got the feeling that this was something I could crack when I was first looking at it. So before you just give me the solution let me see if I can slot some time and do it myself. It's always much more of a learning experience for me that way--although when I lay off JP1 for a year or so, as I just did, it seems like I have a distinct learning curve to come back up to speed. There is actually a fair amount of complexity in what we do here, and a lot of "accumulated" knowledge that needs to be in short term memory when working out new stuff.
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