URC-8060 Extender Beta

[Nils_Ekberg]

Here are the macro definitions :

SAT : Phantom3; Phantom1; SHIFT-SAT,M1
SHIFT-SAT : X_SAT; P_SAT; M_SAT; C_SAT; T_SAT;O_SAT; shift; shift; shift
Phantom1 : X_TV; DiscreteON; X_SAT; DiscreteON
Phantom3 : X_TV; 9

What am I doing wrong here, why do I end up with different screens for the SAT and SHIFT SAT macros? SAT always gives one extre screen action than SHIFT SAT?

Richard

Using a normal orshifted version of a real device key can give unpredictable results when used within a macro. Conceptually it should treat it like any other button but can confuse the extender or for that matter an unextended remote also. I would put the functions on a phantom and call that from the real device button.

Also, the scroll command is both a button and a command so for some reason in the 8060 and the 9960 extenders it generally needs one more command in a macro than you actually would think it needs. In other words if you are on screen 1 and want to go to screen 2 you would think one is enough but it will take 2. That is why I had two in the macros I recommended for simulation of the menu/guide buttons. I could probably come up with a better way like a discrete screen command but I just didn't want to waste the bytes in the extender. If you think it is necessary I will give it a shot.

[RichardP]

Here are the macro definitions :

SAT : Phantom3; Phantom1; SHIFT-SAT,M1
SHIFT-SAT : X_SAT; P_SAT; M_SAT; C_SAT; T_SAT;O_SAT; shift; shift; shift
Phantom1 : X_TV; DiscreteON; X_SAT; DiscreteON
Phantom3 : X_TV; 9

What am I doing wrong here, why do I end up with different screens for the SAT and SHIFT SAT macros? SAT always gives one extre screen action than SHIFT SAT?

Richard

Using a normal orshifted version of a real device key can give unpredictable results when used within a macro. Conceptually it should treat it like any other button but can confuse the extender or for that matter an unextended remote also. I would put the functions on a phantom and call that from the real device button.

Also, the scroll command is both a button and a command so for some reason in the 8060 and the 9960 extenders it generally needs one more command in a macro than you actually would think it needs. In other words if you are on screen 1 and want to go to screen 2 you would think one is enough but it will take 2. That is why I had two in the macros I recommended for simulation of the menu/guide buttons. I could probably come up with a better way like a discrete screen command but I just didn't want to waste the bytes in the extender. If you think it is necessary I will give it a shot.

I've tried assigning the shifted SAT macro to another key, but that makes no difference. It seems to work perfectly well calling a shifted device macro from the device key (you must have done a good job on the extender!).

The cause of the problem is the call to the M1 key, which has a key move for a command to the AV Amp (switch to the Sat input). This basically causes an extra scoll command for some reason.

Personally I would be more than willing to sacrifice a bit of space for the ability to directly switch to the screen I want, I'm using about 1/3 of the macro space and half the Upgrade space. I don't know if its possible, but an alternative would be to have a method of setting the default screen, probably as an option in the General - Other settings table?

Richard

[Nils_Ekberg]

Personally I would be more than willing to sacrifice a bit of space for the ability to directly switch to the screen I want, I'm using about 1/3 of the macro space and half the Upgrade space. I don't know if its possible, but an alternative would be to have a method of setting the default screen, probably as an option in the General - Other settings table?

Richard

I like the idea of a default selection so I will look at that. I think I have a better shot at the screen number command in a macro but I too would prefer the default selection in IR so let me try.

[Nils_Ekberg]

Richard, are you still awake? I uploaded a test for you that lets you select the default screen. It does however, select it for all modes that scroll works in. It can be changed in IR general tab and the default is 0 which is the same as current version. The other options are 1 and 2. 0=Screen 1, 1=Screen 2, and 2=Screen 3.
URC-8060 Extender 1 Beta 2-15-2004 Richard

Ron, give it a try. If you don't like what it does just leave the setting at 0 and it works the same as what you have

[silron1]

1 - I like the 'default screen' choice, for me it makes selection more positive.

2 - I've come across an oddity - I think its in the mapping - For the moment (easier for the Family whilst I'm finalising the layout) I call an 'all off' macro from --/>10. In Sat mode this changes to 'back-up' on two of the screens. On the other side of the remote but showing in all 3 screens is 'info'.

If 'info' is pressed in any screen, no signal is sent - If 'back-up' is pressed it sends the 'all off' macro.
Both the buttons are correctly allocated in RM

[RichardP]

Richard, are you still awake? I uploaded a test for you that lets you select the default screen. It does however, select it for all modes that scroll works in. It can be changed in IR general tab and the default is 0 which is the same as current version. The other options are 1 and 2. 0=Screen 1, 1=Screen 2, and 2=Screen 3.
URC-8060 Extender 1 Beta 2-15-2004 Richard

Ron, give it a try. If you don't like what it does just leave the setting at 0 and it works the same as what you have

Nils,

That makes it quite a bit easier to get what I want, as only the SAT and TV have screen 2 and they are both the screens that I use 99% of the time (only the TV 16:9 key is on the wrong screen). I guess even if there were discrete screen selection commands you would still require DSMs to use them so the only further improvement would be to code the screen changes into the extender so that the extended remote behaves the same as the non extended remote w.r.t. screen changes. Ultimately the best of all would be able to configure your own screen layout, but I would imagine that those screens are hard coded in ROM somewhere.

However (there is always one of these isn't there!), there is an issue with the TV teletext screens control buttons. These buttons are in the same locations as the transport control buttons (play, stop etc), but in the non extended remote they have different key id's. In the extended remote you can use them by mapping them to the transport keys but then you get all the pesky animation which is irrelevant. There is also the screen issue, but that can be overcome via the DSM route.

Richard

[RichardP]

2 - I've come across an oddity - I think its in the mapping - For the moment (easier for the Family whilst I'm finalising the layout) I call an 'all off' macro from --/>10. In Sat mode this changes to 'back-up' on two of the screens. On the other side of the remote but showing in all 3 screens is 'info'.

If 'info' is pressed in any screen, no signal is sent - If 'back-up' is pressed it sends the 'all off' macro.
Both the buttons are correctly allocated in RM

Ron,

I think this is the same problem I'm having with the teletext keys, I've noticed it too with other keys that change the display. In the extender there appears to be only one key ID per iluminated location, so info/AV and select for example are all mapped onto AV.

Richard

[RichardP]

This is a probably a bit off topic but I thought I'd raise it here, you can tell me if I need to re-post somewhere else.

I use the 8060 to control a total of 9 devices.

TV -> TV / AV Amp
DVD -> DVD
VCR -> VCR
AUD (DVD device) -> XP Media Centre
SAT -> Sky+ / Sky
CD -> CD / MD

The TV/Amp combination works fine, the functionality I need can be combined onto the TV device no problem.

The Sky+ and Sky devices are almost identical with the exception that the Sky device has no PVR functionality. The way I've set it up is to do a shifted key move for the main functions of Sky onto the SAT device which is setup for Sky+, the same goes for the CD/MD combination. This works but it's a pain in practice and it involves a lot of key moves. You have to remember to hit shift before every key on the secondary device.

So I have two questions/requests

1) Can I define a device for which the entire key set is shifted? For example define the SAT device as device code 1175 (Sky+) and the SHIFT SAT device as device code 0847 (Sky)? This would save a shed load of key moves.

2) Can I have a sticky shift, i.e. the shift key remains in effect until either the shift key is selected again, another device is selected or the display timeout. Ideally this would be triggered from a pseudo device selection key (in my case M1 selects Sky+ on the Av Amp and M2 selects Sky, so adding the sticky shift to these keys would be ideal).

I guess I could achieve 2) using ToadTog but the number of macros would be crazy!

I did find this : http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=245 but I don’t think I understand what jonsfine is suggesting or if it is applicable to the 8060 extender. Is he suggesting that you set the shift mode back on when you press one of the shifted keys so the next key will be shifted too? Is this doable in the 8060 and if so how?

Sorry to keep asking pesky questions, I guess I'm too inquisative!

Richard

[RichardP]

Getting ahead of myself again, I tried using the ToadTog approach for the CD/MD device combo.

Actually it was much easier than I thought and I now have a simple sub-device select on M1 - M2 which allows me to control either CD or MD without using the 'Magic' key at all. Well almost

I just have one problematic key, the Pause Key.

Without using ToadTog but with the latest Extender the Pause key works the CD and Shift Pause works the MD.

With the ToadTog on Pause the CD Pause will not function, whatever I do it executes the MD Pause instead. The ToadTog codes on Pause are almost identical to the other ToadTog codes on the other functions which work perfectly so I'm at a loss as to what is wrong. You can find the file here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jp1/files ... -Pause.txt

Any idea what's going on?

Richard

[Nils_Ekberg]

I understand the problem with the teletext buttons but those were the compromise I had to make to get the extender buttons in. I know that the functions could be assigned to the transport buttons since I forced them to be mapped in. I did forgot about those pesky animations. Can we live with this?

I also know DSM (as I outlined above) will do the trick with making the menu/guide/ etc work like the original remote which leave the question, should I make that function within the extender instead of DSM's. There are 2 issues with remote memory. 1) the number of bytes the extender takes and more impoortantly, 2) the size of the exetender is limited to an amount of bytes that can be read and reread everytime the extender is swapped out.

Since I was able to make the default screen selection pretty easy I will now look at just making it for the VCR and CBL/SAT or make them individual choices. I would much rather do this as a setting rather than a command so I will try.

Richard, I will take a look at your TT's in a little bit since my wife is being unreasonable and asking for some of my time today. She does not understand that remotes may be more important than house work

I hope we have made enough progress that the extender is better for you than the unextended remote and hit the right combination of compromise vs. function.

[RichardP]

Oh yes Nils, the extended remote is MUCH better than the original, even with JP1.

If you could make the default screen device specific I think that would be fine. I don't use teletext much so I can live with those animations, unless its easy for you to fix .

[RichardP]

Nils,

I've updated the txt with the Pause problem, I now have ToadTog ed the Sky+ and Sky devices, all these work as expected. No hurry to look at these, spend some time with your wife!!

Richard

[Nils_Ekberg]

I posted the official release of the 8060 extender. See announcement.

It includes device specific default screen selection as discussed above. Post additional requests for functions in that thread.